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Message: <blockquote data-quote="wingsandsword" data-source="post: 2378048" data-attributes="member: 14159">They were optional rules in 2nd edition (commonly used, but still optional), and Oriental Adventures didn't come out until 1985, the Survival Guides game later).  Secondary skills were also optional in 2nd Edition (as part of the entire chapter on "Proficiencies").  I don't have a 1e PHB around to look it up, but are you sure that Secondary Skills were not considered optional in 1e?Thief skills were more of a fixed class ability that was called a "skill", you had a fixed chance to do a very specific act, it was just called a "skill", and 2e just put some flexibility into it.  The rules for a non-thief trying to listen for a noise, climb a wall, or sneak around were clunky and cobbled-together at best as an afterthought.What 3.x did was assume, as integral core rules, that all characters can perform tasks not directly related to their character class or any character class, provide a uniform method for determining skill with and success at those tasks, and provide a method for characters to pick up skills (without multiclassing or dual-classing) that would be normally outside the purview of their classes (Wizards who are skilled at climbing, Clerics who are pickpockets, thieves that are armorsmiths), as well as a game-mechanical way of determining, beyond raw Charisma, how socially skilled a character was and how skilled at lying, persuading, interpreting other's intentions and finding out information can be, allowing a socially unskilled player to play a highly skilled character and a uniform method for determining relative effectiveness of their efforts.</blockquote>

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