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Message: <blockquote data-quote="William Ronald" data-source="post: 2383753" data-attributes="member: 426">Dave, I agree with you in part that the social situation rules are far from perfect.  However, I think that as I am unfamiliar with the sort of social skills system you are describing, I tend to be somewhat skeptical of it.I think player characters are handled a bit differently from NPCs as the players, not the DM, control the PCs.  I think that one of the problems with social situations is to try to decide how one fictional character with free will controlled by a player interacts with another one controlled by a DM.  Also, I think that most people prefer to chose how their characters react to a situation,  DMs are perhaps less committed to how NPCs chose, as most DMs do not have the same investment in a given NPC as most players have with their PCs.I suppose the current rules are a rough compromise, as uncharismatic characters suffer from low charisma scores.{QUOTE=Dave Turner]It's not about how a player character RESPONDS, since that implies that there is no opposing force in the situation. I'm not suggesting that a character should have to roll to see if he likes someone he just met at a cocktail party. But if the cocktail guest is TRYING to get the character to like him (i.e. there is an active attempt to influence the character), then the character should absolutely have to roll to resist the charms (no pun intended) of the cocktail guest.</blockquote>So, the same mechanic should apply to a PC as to an NPC.  I can see many players arguing that their characters would not respond to someone's charm.  As for constantly requiring rolls for social interactions, I think many players would still prefer to decide for themselves how someone acts.  Also, players and DMs can agree when dice rolling is appropriate, but can engage in roleplaying before the first die is rolled.  If my proposed way of handling has the potential for abuse by DMs, so does a system that relies solely on die roles.  People may feel that they have little control of their characters, and that they are just following the rolls of the dice.  I have  suffered from railroading DMs, so perhaps you can see why I prefer to have players try to determine how their characters will react.  Dave, in some respects, I agree with you.  It is very hard to adequately model complex social interactions at times.  However, I must agree to disagree with you on the issue of treating social interactions in the same manner as combat.  The last thing I want as a player is to have a DM tell me that my character feels a certain way because of a die roll.  I can accept this for NPCs -- within certain limits.  However, I think players generally do not wish to be told what there characters feel and think.  Sorry to be a bit skeptical of your approach, Dave, but I have had a few experiences that make me a bit cautious about your approach.  (In one campaign, everythign became about bonuses and die rolls -- and went to the level of absurdity.  I ended up walking out on a group that I had played with for many years because I no longer enjoyed that campaign, believed in that setting, or felt that my characters had any impact.  I almost quit gaming altogether.  So, perhaps you can understand why I am reluctant about a system where everything is based on die rolls.  Most DMs I know use the current rules, but also use some judgement -- and interact with their players for some feedback.  I suppose extremes of just relying on die rolls -- or a DM deciding who is charismatic and who is not -- can be subject to different kinds of abuse.)Also, should skill with social interaction depend solely on class? It is somewhat influenced by class and skill choices, but I worry that treating social interaction like combat would I can also see the opposite happening as players feel that it is they have little control over their actions, are told by dice rolls how to react and feel, and find that it is the NPCs that have become the star of the show.  Your approach, as well as using the existing rules, or another method all boil down to the quality of the DM and the players. I just worry that in the hands of some DMs, players may feell that they have little control over their characters.  This may diminish enjoyment of the game -- and fun is the whole point of RPGs!Any alternate takes on different ways of handling social interactions?  Dave, I respect your opinions, but I do not entirely agree with them,  If the rules for social interaction are indadequate, perhaps change them. Perhaps some balance between following die roles and giving players choice over how their characters think, feel and react might be best.[/QUOTE]

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