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<blockquote data-quote="SweeneyTodd" data-source="post: 4291148" data-attributes="member: 9391">Well, if you do, say the change in base attack bonus, then you're looking at a +5 difference in to-hits at level 10. That's a large enough difference that the magical guys with all those neat spells either will never land them, or that fighters will not really have to worry about ever missing. One way to make fighters more &quot;fighty&quot; would be to say that they're so good at fighting that they are occasionally able to strike decisive blows. Those blows could have some kind of extra mechanical effect. Then you'd want some way to balance them, so you might say they only happen a limited amount, to make it fair with spellcasters. You could, say, let those bonuses come into play a few times per fight, or maybe even once per day. That sounds sarcastic, but my point is that fighters explicitly *don't* have magical powers just because their class features include special abilities with use limits.I think that a large amount of the things you'd like to be different in 4e can be visualized the way you want them to work, without changing the mechanical effects. For instance, the complaints you have about hit points vs. a realistic wounding and recovery system? Those can probably be applied to any version of D&amp;D, really to almost any game with hit points. One way to address it that allows you to change your visualizations and not the mechanics is just to decide that when it comes to PCs, they're only actually physically injured (as opposed to losing HP due to fatigue, luck, &quot;just missed me&quot; or have you) when they are bloodied. Then you could run the game such that characters who've been bloodied in a fight have some kind of wound that requires treatment. There are a lot of interesting mechanics that interact with the bloodied condition, so it might be a good place to start.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="SweeneyTodd, post: 4291148, member: 9391"] Well, if you do, say the change in base attack bonus, then you're looking at a +5 difference in to-hits at level 10. That's a large enough difference that the magical guys with all those neat spells either will never land them, or that fighters will not really have to worry about ever missing. One way to make fighters more "fighty" would be to say that they're so good at fighting that they are occasionally able to strike decisive blows. Those blows could have some kind of extra mechanical effect. Then you'd want some way to balance them, so you might say they only happen a limited amount, to make it fair with spellcasters. You could, say, let those bonuses come into play a few times per fight, or maybe even once per day. That sounds sarcastic, but my point is that fighters explicitly *don't* have magical powers just because their class features include special abilities with use limits. I think that a large amount of the things you'd like to be different in 4e can be visualized the way you want them to work, without changing the mechanical effects. For instance, the complaints you have about hit points vs. a realistic wounding and recovery system? Those can probably be applied to any version of D&D, really to almost any game with hit points. One way to address it that allows you to change your visualizations and not the mechanics is just to decide that when it comes to PCs, they're only actually physically injured (as opposed to losing HP due to fatigue, luck, "just missed me" or have you) when they are bloodied. Then you could run the game such that characters who've been bloodied in a fight have some kind of wound that requires treatment. There are a lot of interesting mechanics that interact with the bloodied condition, so it might be a good place to start. [/QUOTE]

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