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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 6918584" data-attributes="member: 53980">I agree with Saelorn's arrangement, although I'm not sure how I feel about summing the bonuses. It's not out of the question for a martial character to have a 20 Strength and Constitution by end-game, and a +16 is practically an auto-success against most things (especially when you factor in re-roll features like Indomitable and Lucky); it's +21 if that character is standing in a paladin's aura. It also doesn't guarantee that a character will never have a +0 to their saving throw; it's not hard to imagine a fighter with a 10 Wisdom and Charisma. Despite that they are not symmetric and I realize that sometimes irks folks, it makes sense for Reflex to just apply to Dexterity saves (which is one of the most common types of saves anyway) and for Will to apply to Int, Wis and Cha (two of which are uncommon saves).One thing you could do to make having a +1 to save less likely at high levels is reintroduce the concept of good, average, and poor saves (from 3e). Good saves would be proficient, poor saves would be non-proficient (or you could go the route of granting 1/3 proficiency bonus for poor saves, which narrows the gap between an average and a poor save dramatically at high levels). Average saves would be half your proficiency bonus rounded down.Don't forget that the Resilient feat and some class features need to be addressed if you implement such a change.As an aside, but on a related note, I was wondering last night why the designers adopted evasion into 5e, but left out its Fortitude and Willpower counterparts (both of which existed in 5e although their names escape me at the moment). Those might be worthwhile additions as well, if you're already tinkering with the saving throw system anyway.Keep in mind that IMO at high levels, 5e assumes that you will typically have class abilities to negate or remove effects from party members who fail their saves. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it (it's probably a good idea if you're running a high level solo game) but do take into consideration that using such suggestions does effectively make characters a bit more powerful, since the party healer(s) will be able to focus more often on offense rather than having to remove negative conditions from their allies.</blockquote>

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