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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 6919011" data-attributes="member: 6775031">First, there's the math thing. Save DCs scale with your primary stat and always get proficiency - always two high numbers - but actual saves only scale with one stat (not necessarily your primary) and only get proficiency a third of the time. Comparing two high numbers against one (not-necessarily high) number - a wizard making a Charisma save - is not an interesting situation. Comparing two high numbers against two numbers (only one of which is necessarily high) - a wizard making a Wisdom save - is almost interesting. As it stands currently, the only time you get a real toss-up as to the outcome is when you cast a spell at the worst possible target - someone using an Int save against a wizard, or a Dex save against a rogue - and even that is only fifty percent!With my change, you're comparing two high numbers against two or three numbers, of which none are necessarily high. You could still hit a fighter with a Will save, and it would be almost as bad as it is now; it wouldn't be quite as bad, since they might have a +1 or +2 in the other stat, but it would be almost as bad. And sure, a barbarian might have +15 to save against your DC 18 spell, but there's nothing wrong with that - in this instance, the wizard chose the exact wrong spell to use, and the barbarian still might fail!Note that proficiency only applies once, though (per the second point).More importantly, adding bonuses together means you are actually incentivized to invest in both stats. If you improve your Dex mod by +1, it will always increase your Reflex save by +1, even if your Int is higher. Given a dextrous fighter in one corner, and Stephen Hawking in the other, their relative ability to evade a fireball should not be too close to call; and either one should clearly be inferior to their combined form.For the way that the game is currently designed, there are three major saves (Dex, Con, Wis) and three minor saves (Str, Int, Cha). Every class gets one of each. Effects that call for a major save are much, much more common than effects that call for a minor save.You can follow the design process where they started with the three saves from the previous editions, tried to reconcile that into using all six stats so that you'd have fewer derived values on your sheet, but couldn't quite figure out how to split up the effects evenly so that they would all be equally distinct and useful, so they gave up and segregated them into two categories. The major saves are important because they govern just about everything that was covered by the three saves in the earlier editions, and the minor saves are an afterthought because it was too late in the design process to scrap them entirely.I consider proficiency in Str/Int/Cha to be virtually worthless, because that's how the game already treats them. They only exist as a gotcha for some obscure monster to bypass your meaningful saves, and to make arcane spellcasters less resilient (since their prime stats correspond to minor saves, which means there's nothing that matters that they're good at resisting).</blockquote>

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