Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6919095" data-attributes="member: 37579">I imagine it would be a pretty simple to just have Constitution, Wisdom, and Dexterity saving throws again, dropping Str, Int, and Cha. Have every class proficient in one saving throw, either based on the one that still exists or their choice if they have two of the remaining three. There's only, what, twenty monsters with DCs of 20 or higher? Including all 10 ancient dragons. This seems like an issue that will come up two, maybe three times in a campaign. And then only if the campaign actually reaches above level 15. And most are of a CR above level 20, and thus not expected foes. They're bosses, which are that little extra deadlier, and facing them requires planning and buffs. No system is every 100% perfect. With a couple saving throws rolled each combat, and roughly 175 encounters been 1st level and 20th level, that's 350 saving throws rolled per PC. Likely more. Having four or five saving throws that might be an auto-fail is problematic, but that's still 1.42% of all saving throws. Unbalanced dice will likely have a larger impact...A better revision would be not using those monsters. Or ruling the DC of their saves caps at 20, changing the two-dozen egregious monsters rather than every PC for the entire campaign.That said, saving throws are wonky. Your odds of success do decrease over time. The design is off, but it has nothing to do with DC 21+ saving throws. Focusing on that distracts away from the real problem with saving throws. The catch is, your saves increase with levels, but so do the DCs. It's the one subsystem in 5e where the DCs change. So with proficiency, your chances of success effectively remain constant, while everyone else's chances for success decrease. It's a funky system that exists because they wanted spellcasters to have spells that are harder to resist at high levels. It was probably a mistake to have monsters follow those same rules. If redesigning the system, I might have saving throws only increase through increasing ability scores but not proficiency. Or only adding half proficiency. (Perhaps starting at 9 or 10 to keep the starting numbers closer.)</blockquote>

Verification