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"Fixing" 5e's Least Well Performing Classes
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8053688" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p><strong>Monk</strong></p><p></p><p>So I designed an alternate monk that I had a player playtest for me (its in spoilers below if you want to take a look). I tried a lot of improvements, and I liked most of them. However, if your look at a minimal list of changes from that run these would be the best changes imo.</p><p></p><p>[Spoiler]</p><p><strong>Altered Monk Table</strong></p><p></p><table style='width: 100%'><tr><td><p style="text-align: center"><strong>Level</strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center"><strong>Proficiency<br /> Bonus</strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center"><strong>Martial<br /> Arts</strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center"><strong>Ki<br /> Points</strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center"><strong>Unarmored<br /> Movement</strong></p> </td><td><p style="text-align: center"><strong>Features</strong></p> </td></tr><tr><td>1st</td><td>+2</td><td>1d4</td><td>—</td><td>—</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#UnarmoredDefense-226" target="_blank">Unarmored Defense</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MartialArts-227" target="_blank">Martial Arts</a></td></tr><tr><td>2nd</td><td>+2</td><td>1d4</td><td>2</td><td>+10 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Ki-228" target="_blank">Ki</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#UnarmoredMovement-229" target="_blank">Unarmored Movement</a></td></tr><tr><td>3rd</td><td>+2</td><td>1d4</td><td>3</td><td>+10 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTradition-230" target="_blank">Monastic Tradition</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#DeflectMissiles-231" target="_blank">Second</a><strong> Wind</strong></td></tr><tr><td>4th</td><td>+2</td><td>1d4</td><td>4</td><td>+10 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232" target="_blank">Ability Score Improvement</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#SlowFall-233" target="_blank">Transcendent</a> Defense</td></tr><tr><td>5th</td><td>+3</td><td>1d6</td><td>5</td><td>+10 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#ExtraAttack-234" target="_blank">Extra Attack</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#StunningStrike-235" target="_blank">Stunning Blow</a></td></tr><tr><td>6th</td><td>+3</td><td>1d6</td><td>6</td><td>+15 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Ki-EmpoweredStrikes-236" target="_blank">Ki-Empowered Strikes</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTraditions" target="_blank">Monastic Tradition Feature</a></td></tr><tr><td>7th</td><td>+3</td><td>1d6</td><td>7</td><td>+15 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Evasion-237" target="_blank">Evasion</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#StillnessofMind-238" target="_blank">Instinctual</a> Form</td></tr><tr><td>8th</td><td>+3</td><td>1d6</td><td>8</td><td>+15 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232" target="_blank">Ability Score Improvement</a></td></tr><tr><td>9th</td><td>+4</td><td>1d6</td><td>9</td><td>+15 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#UnarmoredMovementImprovement-245" target="_blank">Unarmored Movement Improvement</a></td></tr><tr><td>10th</td><td>+4</td><td>1d6</td><td>10</td><td>+20 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#PurityofBody-239" target="_blank">Purity of Body</a></td></tr><tr><td>11th</td><td>+4</td><td>1d8</td><td>11</td><td>+20 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTraditions" target="_blank">Monastic Tradition Feature</a></td></tr><tr><td>12th</td><td>+4</td><td>1d8</td><td>12</td><td>+20 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232" target="_blank">Ability Score Improvement</a></td></tr><tr><td>13th</td><td>+5</td><td>1d8</td><td>13</td><td>+20 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#TongueoftheSunandMoon-240" target="_blank">Tongue of the Sun and Moon</a></td></tr><tr><td>14th</td><td>+5</td><td>1d8</td><td>14</td><td>+25 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#DiamondSoul-241" target="_blank">Adamantine</a> Soul, Step of the Spirit</td></tr><tr><td>15th</td><td>+5</td><td>1d8</td><td>15</td><td>+25 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#TimelessBody-242" target="_blank">Timeless Body</a></td></tr><tr><td>16th</td><td>+5</td><td>1d8</td><td>16</td><td>+25 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232" target="_blank">Ability Score Improvement</a></td></tr><tr><td>17th</td><td>+6</td><td>1d10</td><td>17</td><td>+25 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTraditions" target="_blank">Monastic Tradition Feature</a></td></tr><tr><td>18th</td><td>+6</td><td>1d10</td><td>18</td><td>+30 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#EmptyBody-243" target="_blank">Empty Body</a></td></tr><tr><td>19th</td><td>+6</td><td>1d10</td><td>19</td><td>+30 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232" target="_blank">Ability Score Improvement</a></td></tr><tr><td>20th</td><td>+6</td><td>1d10</td><td>20</td><td>+30 ft.</td><td><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#PerfectSelf-244" target="_blank">Perfect Self</a></td></tr></table><p><strong>Unarmored Defense</strong>: AC = 11 + Dex + Prof Bonus</p><p></p><p><strong>Martial Arts</strong>: Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Ki</strong> – At the start of your turn, gain 1 Ki, to a maximum of your Ki points noted in the chart. You can spend that KI on the following abilities.</p><p></p><p></p><p>· Step of the Wind: When performing movement<strong>, </strong>spend 1 Ki and gain the effect of the Disengage or Dash actions (or spend 2 KI to gain both). Your jump speed is doubled for movement.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Patient Defense: As a reaction when an attack roll is made against you, spend 1 Ki and gain the benefits of the dodge action until the start of your next turn (still costs Ki)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Flurry of Blows: When using the Martial Arts bonus action, spend 1 Ki and gain an additional unarmed attack. The Martial Arts bonus attack counts as a Flurry of Blows attack for abilities.<br /> <br /> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Diamond Soul: When making a saving throw, spend 1 Ki to become proficient in that save.</li> </ul><p><strong>Unarmored Movement</strong> – Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Monastic Tradition</strong> – Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Second Wind</strong> - As the fighter, but using the Monk's level.</p><p></p><p><strong>Transcendent Defense</strong>: You can spend 1 KI to reduce falling damage or the damage from a ranged attack by 5 times your monk level. This ability can be used once per round.</p><p></p><p><strong>Stunning Blow</strong>: When using <em>Flurry of Blows</em>, you can choose 1 hit against a target to be a stunning blow. The target must make a constitution saving throw or be stunned until of your next turn. You can use this ability once per round.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ki-Powered Strikes</strong>: Your attacks count as magical weapons and can drain the KI from other living things. When you make a critical hit on an enemy that is not a construct or undead, you regain 1 Ki.</p><p></p><p><strong>Evasion</strong>: Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Instinctual Form</strong>: When incapacitated or unconscious, you can still take reactions.</p><p></p><p><strong>Purity of Body</strong>: Same</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Tongue of the Sun and Moon</strong>: Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Adamantine Soul</strong>: When using <em>Diamond Soul</em>, you gain advantage on your roll.</p><p></p><p><strong>Step of the Spirit</strong>: When using <em>Step of the Wind</em>, you gain a fly speed equal to your speed. If you don’t maintain the ability each round, you fall.</p><p></p><p><strong>Timeless Body</strong>: Your body does not age, and cannot be magically aged. You require no food, water, or air. You cannot suffer the effects of fatigue</p><p></p><p><strong>Empty Body</strong>: Same</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Perfect Self</strong>: You can use two bonus actions and two reactions each round.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Open Hand Monk Abilities</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong>Open Hand Technique </strong>(3rd Level): Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Ki Combination </strong>(6th level): When you regain KI using <em>KI Empowered Strikes</em>, you can spend that KI to make an immediate unarmed strike. Your open hand technique can work on these attacks.</p><p></p><p><strong>Tranquility: </strong>Same</p><p></p><p><strong>Quivering Palm</strong>: Same</p><p></p><p></p><p>[/Spoiler]</p><p></p><p>1) Patient Defense: Now a reaction, used when you are attacked or forced to make a reflex save.</p><p>2) Step of the Wind: You can spend 2 ki to use both abilities at once (aka disengage and dash)</p><p>3) Unarmored Defense: AC = 11 + Dex + Prof Bonus (Wisdom is no longer required for basic AC)</p><p>4) Ki - At the start of the monk's turn, if it has not used any KI since the last round, regain 1 KI.</p><p>5) KI Powered Strike - (5th level). Monks attacks are magical weapons and can drain Ki from living things. If you score a critical hit on a creature not a construct or undead, regain 1 Ki.</p><p>6) Stunning Blow - Only allowed 1 per round.</p><p></p><p>So with these changes, I focused on the monk's flexibility. You now only dodge when you need to, and it doesn't mess with your offense or mobility. You can dash and disengage together...because your a monk damn it and your supposed to be the pinnacle of mobility. You can regain Ki with crits, with is a fun flavor and a cool moment for the monk in combat.</p><p></p><p>But most important of all, Ki is now a tactical resource. Its a special resource, the one "per round" recovered resource. You can finish a fight and nigh instantly regain your Ki. You can regain Ki in combat...but to do that you must stop using it for a time, so in long fights you still have to be stingy about when to use it. Because of this I also limited STunning blow, you can stun round after round, but you can't attempt 4 stuns in a round. Ultimately this made the monk less reliant on stun as his one thing that actually made him cool.</p><p></p><p>This monk I found was able to be more carefree with his Ki, he was able to run like the wind, actually tank some hits while having an actual offense... and never felt OP compared to other classes.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Sorceror</strong></p><p>I've said before that mechanically the Sorc can be strong, it just needs a bit of help. So a small list.</p><p></p><p>1) Sorceror's don't use material components for spells unless there is a gold cost.</p><p>2) More than one metamagic can be used at once (I've tried it in my games, doesn't break the bank in the slightest).</p><p>3) A few metamagic changes:</p><p></p><p>a. Distant Spell: A range of self becomes touch. This cannot be combined with Twin Spell.</p><p>b. Extend Spell: The duration is doubled. Further, any roll to dispel or counterspell this spell has disadvantage on the roll.</p><p>c. Careful Spell: If a spell does an effect on a successful save, there is no effect.</p><p></p><p>4) Some extra spells known.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 8053688, member: 5889"] [B]Monk[/B] So I designed an alternate monk that I had a player playtest for me (its in spoilers below if you want to take a look). I tried a lot of improvements, and I liked most of them. However, if your look at a minimal list of changes from that run these would be the best changes imo. [Spoiler] [B]Altered Monk Table[/B] [TABLE] [TR] [TD][CENTER][B]Level[/B][/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER][B]Proficiency Bonus[/B][/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER][B]Martial Arts[/B][/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER][B]Ki Points[/B][/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER][B]Unarmored Movement[/B][/CENTER][/TD] [TD][CENTER][B]Features[/B][/CENTER][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]1st[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]1d4[/TD] [TD]—[/TD] [TD]—[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#UnarmoredDefense-226']Unarmored Defense[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MartialArts-227']Martial Arts[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2nd[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]1d4[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]+10 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Ki-228']Ki[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#UnarmoredMovement-229']Unarmored Movement[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]3rd[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]1d4[/TD] [TD]3[/TD] [TD]+10 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTradition-230']Monastic Tradition[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#DeflectMissiles-231']Second[/URL][B] Wind[/B][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]4th[/TD] [TD]+2[/TD] [TD]1d4[/TD] [TD]4[/TD] [TD]+10 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232']Ability Score Improvement[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#SlowFall-233']Transcendent[/URL] Defense[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]5th[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]5[/TD] [TD]+10 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#ExtraAttack-234']Extra Attack[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#StunningStrike-235']Stunning Blow[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]6th[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]6[/TD] [TD]+15 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Ki-EmpoweredStrikes-236']Ki-Empowered Strikes[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTraditions']Monastic Tradition Feature[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]7th[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]7[/TD] [TD]+15 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Evasion-237']Evasion[/URL], [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#StillnessofMind-238']Instinctual[/URL] Form[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]8th[/TD] [TD]+3[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]8[/TD] [TD]+15 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232']Ability Score Improvement[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]9th[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]+15 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#UnarmoredMovementImprovement-245']Unarmored Movement Improvement[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]10th[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]1d6[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]+20 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#PurityofBody-239']Purity of Body[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]11th[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [TD]+20 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTraditions']Monastic Tradition Feature[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]12th[/TD] [TD]+4[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]+20 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232']Ability Score Improvement[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]13th[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]13[/TD] [TD]+20 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#TongueoftheSunandMoon-240']Tongue of the Sun and Moon[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]14th[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]+25 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#DiamondSoul-241']Adamantine[/URL] Soul, Step of the Spirit[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]15th[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]15[/TD] [TD]+25 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#TimelessBody-242']Timeless Body[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]16th[/TD] [TD]+5[/TD] [TD]1d8[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [TD]+25 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232']Ability Score Improvement[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]17th[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]1d10[/TD] [TD]17[/TD] [TD]+25 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#MonasticTraditions']Monastic Tradition Feature[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]18th[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]1d10[/TD] [TD]18[/TD] [TD]+30 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#EmptyBody-243']Empty Body[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]19th[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]1d10[/TD] [TD]19[/TD] [TD]+30 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#AbilityScoreImprovement-232']Ability Score Improvement[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]20th[/TD] [TD]+6[/TD] [TD]1d10[/TD] [TD]20[/TD] [TD]+30 ft.[/TD] [TD][URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#PerfectSelf-244']Perfect Self[/URL][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [B]Unarmored Defense[/B]: AC = 11 + Dex + Prof Bonus [B]Martial Arts[/B]: Same [B]Ki[/B] – At the start of your turn, gain 1 Ki, to a maximum of your Ki points noted in the chart. You can spend that KI on the following abilities. · Step of the Wind: When performing movement[B], [/B]spend 1 Ki and gain the effect of the Disengage or Dash actions (or spend 2 KI to gain both). Your jump speed is doubled for movement. [LIST] [*]Patient Defense: As a reaction when an attack roll is made against you, spend 1 Ki and gain the benefits of the dodge action until the start of your next turn (still costs Ki) [*]Flurry of Blows: When using the Martial Arts bonus action, spend 1 Ki and gain an additional unarmed attack. The Martial Arts bonus attack counts as a Flurry of Blows attack for abilities. [*]Diamond Soul: When making a saving throw, spend 1 Ki to become proficient in that save. [/LIST] [B]Unarmored Movement[/B] – Same [B]Monastic Tradition[/B] – Same [B]Second Wind[/B] - As the fighter, but using the Monk's level. [B]Transcendent Defense[/B]: You can spend 1 KI to reduce falling damage or the damage from a ranged attack by 5 times your monk level. This ability can be used once per round. [B]Stunning Blow[/B]: When using [I]Flurry of Blows[/I], you can choose 1 hit against a target to be a stunning blow. The target must make a constitution saving throw or be stunned until of your next turn. You can use this ability once per round. [B]Ki-Powered Strikes[/B]: Your attacks count as magical weapons and can drain the KI from other living things. When you make a critical hit on an enemy that is not a construct or undead, you regain 1 Ki. [B]Evasion[/B]: Same [B]Instinctual Form[/B]: When incapacitated or unconscious, you can still take reactions. [B]Purity of Body[/B]: Same [B]Tongue of the Sun and Moon[/B]: Same [B]Adamantine Soul[/B]: When using [I]Diamond Soul[/I], you gain advantage on your roll. [B]Step of the Spirit[/B]: When using [I]Step of the Wind[/I], you gain a fly speed equal to your speed. If you don’t maintain the ability each round, you fall. [B]Timeless Body[/B]: Your body does not age, and cannot be magically aged. You require no food, water, or air. You cannot suffer the effects of fatigue [B]Empty Body[/B]: Same [B]Perfect Self[/B]: You can use two bonus actions and two reactions each round. [B]Open Hand Monk Abilities Open Hand Technique [/B](3rd Level): Same [B]Ki Combination [/B](6th level): When you regain KI using [I]KI Empowered Strikes[/I], you can spend that KI to make an immediate unarmed strike. Your open hand technique can work on these attacks. [B]Tranquility: [/B]Same [B]Quivering Palm[/B]: Same [/Spoiler] 1) Patient Defense: Now a reaction, used when you are attacked or forced to make a reflex save. 2) Step of the Wind: You can spend 2 ki to use both abilities at once (aka disengage and dash) 3) Unarmored Defense: AC = 11 + Dex + Prof Bonus (Wisdom is no longer required for basic AC) 4) Ki - At the start of the monk's turn, if it has not used any KI since the last round, regain 1 KI. 5) KI Powered Strike - (5th level). Monks attacks are magical weapons and can drain Ki from living things. If you score a critical hit on a creature not a construct or undead, regain 1 Ki. 6) Stunning Blow - Only allowed 1 per round. So with these changes, I focused on the monk's flexibility. You now only dodge when you need to, and it doesn't mess with your offense or mobility. You can dash and disengage together...because your a monk damn it and your supposed to be the pinnacle of mobility. You can regain Ki with crits, with is a fun flavor and a cool moment for the monk in combat. But most important of all, Ki is now a tactical resource. Its a special resource, the one "per round" recovered resource. You can finish a fight and nigh instantly regain your Ki. You can regain Ki in combat...but to do that you must stop using it for a time, so in long fights you still have to be stingy about when to use it. Because of this I also limited STunning blow, you can stun round after round, but you can't attempt 4 stuns in a round. Ultimately this made the monk less reliant on stun as his one thing that actually made him cool. This monk I found was able to be more carefree with his Ki, he was able to run like the wind, actually tank some hits while having an actual offense... and never felt OP compared to other classes. [B]Sorceror[/B] I've said before that mechanically the Sorc can be strong, it just needs a bit of help. So a small list. 1) Sorceror's don't use material components for spells unless there is a gold cost. 2) More than one metamagic can be used at once (I've tried it in my games, doesn't break the bank in the slightest). 3) A few metamagic changes: a. Distant Spell: A range of self becomes touch. This cannot be combined with Twin Spell. b. Extend Spell: The duration is doubled. Further, any roll to dispel or counterspell this spell has disadvantage on the roll. c. Careful Spell: If a spell does an effect on a successful save, there is no effect. 4) Some extra spells known. [/QUOTE]
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