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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Fixing Casters, the Right Way
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<blockquote data-quote="Tequila Sunrise" data-source="post: 5002298" data-attributes="member: 40398"><p>For what it's worth, my Wall of Stone will <em>not</em> be permanent. </p><p></p><p></p><p>At least once you've commented that my rules allow BBEGs to use SoLs against PCs with impunity, while remaining immune to the PCs' SoLs. Just clarifying that only the second part is true.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Debatable. Rather than debate it though, let's talk about two other possible balancing mechanisms: Nonsi's full-round casting time idea, and single round durations. What do you think of those two ideas?</p><p></p><p></p><p>If a permanent spell is okay at 4th level, I don't see why it can't be okay at 1st level either. (And if it's not okay at 1st level, it's not really okay at 4th level either.) Of course we can't have a 1st level spell producing higher CR monsters, but scaling power down is implied in lower level spells like yours.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ah! If you notice, I rewrote Heighten Spell rather vaguely because I've been considering what you've essentially suggested in your Codex.</p><p></p><p>(For you link-phobes: The idea is that Heighten Spell can raise/lower <strong>any</strong> level-based aspect of a spell within the parameters of a spell-series, not just DCs. I can sympathize with nonsi's argument for it, but I can also see the opposing argument that it creates too much versatility. What do you all think?)</p><p></p><p></p><p>All true. The problem I'm seeing is that CR is at least a rough estimation of a creature's challenge, while HD are a rough estimation of...well, nothing. 99% of the time, attack bonuses are further modified by Str/Dex, HP look vastly different than HD would suggest thanks to how Con applies to HP, skills are more influenced by Int and creature type, etc... Especially at high levels, HD vary wildly from monster to monster. For example a melee brute might have 40 - 50 HD while a caster might have just 20 HD -- yet they're all roughly the same challenge. Honestly, I don't know how HD managed to remain the nerve-center for all these stats beyond 2e, because HD hardly mean anything.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So combatants who already have the best chance of surviving a SoL get to be immune, while combatants who have the worst chance are just as vulnerable as before? Doesn't sound appealing to me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tequila Sunrise, post: 5002298, member: 40398"] For what it's worth, my Wall of Stone will [i]not[/i] be permanent. At least once you've commented that my rules allow BBEGs to use SoLs against PCs with impunity, while remaining immune to the PCs' SoLs. Just clarifying that only the second part is true. Yes. Debatable. Rather than debate it though, let's talk about two other possible balancing mechanisms: Nonsi's full-round casting time idea, and single round durations. What do you think of those two ideas? If a permanent spell is okay at 4th level, I don't see why it can't be okay at 1st level either. (And if it's not okay at 1st level, it's not really okay at 4th level either.) Of course we can't have a 1st level spell producing higher CR monsters, but scaling power down is implied in lower level spells like yours. Ah! If you notice, I rewrote Heighten Spell rather vaguely because I've been considering what you've essentially suggested in your Codex. (For you link-phobes: The idea is that Heighten Spell can raise/lower [b]any[/b] level-based aspect of a spell within the parameters of a spell-series, not just DCs. I can sympathize with nonsi's argument for it, but I can also see the opposing argument that it creates too much versatility. What do you all think?) All true. The problem I'm seeing is that CR is at least a rough estimation of a creature's challenge, while HD are a rough estimation of...well, nothing. 99% of the time, attack bonuses are further modified by Str/Dex, HP look vastly different than HD would suggest thanks to how Con applies to HP, skills are more influenced by Int and creature type, etc... Especially at high levels, HD vary wildly from monster to monster. For example a melee brute might have 40 - 50 HD while a caster might have just 20 HD -- yet they're all roughly the same challenge. Honestly, I don't know how HD managed to remain the nerve-center for all these stats beyond 2e, because HD hardly mean anything. So combatants who already have the best chance of surviving a SoL get to be immune, while combatants who have the worst chance are just as vulnerable as before? Doesn't sound appealing to me. [/QUOTE]
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