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Fixing Challenge Rating
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 9246050" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>All the best if you are able to actually work something out! It's a hard road, but seems like it would be very helpful for some if you can hammer something good into shape. But I'm always afraid that one of the hardest things anyone is going to run into as they try to mock up a system for rating challenges is that there are just so many ways to get around them that are not based on PC and monster statblocks, but rather DM adjudication. If all encounters were purely based on math you'd be able to build genuine expectations... but when things like charms, illusions, summons and the like can power down, power up or even completely remove encounters from a DM's expectations for a day... trying to actually suss out what things are "worth" in calculations can seem a nightmare.</p><p></p><p>Like for instance, at the top of a supposedly difficult fight, a player might cast a single charm effect spell that affects the boss monster immediately in the encounter... and through that charm spell and how the players and DM then roleplay out the party's and boss's reaction-- that might result in the boss telling all of his minions to stand down, and the fight is averted. And thus an encounter that was created under the expectation that it would reduce party resources a certain amount (and thus be taken into account in the CR calculations in the number of encounters for the day)... that avoided fight has now blown those calculations up after a single spell. And as a result the DM might now possibly find subsequent encounters easier for the PCs than they expected them to be because the PCs didn't lose nearly the amount of resources they were "supposed" to. And can the CR system that is designed be able to take those changes in calculations into account?</p><p></p><p>This has always been my own personal bugaboo about trying to use challenge rating systems, let alone create them. With so many PC at the table with so many abilities that interact with one another against so many monsters with so many abilities that can end or extend fights beyond expectation... I always feel like even thinking there should be a system to rely on is a road I don't want to go down. Better to just get into the mindset and experience of "winging it" each and every time and thus avoiding the disappointment of thinking a system is in place to use and then discovering it doesn't actually work.</p><p></p><p>But I will also freely admit that my mindset is colored by my own beliefs in improvisation when it comes to RPGs, as well as being completely okay with "fudging" things to fix possible gaps in encounters when things go weird. So I certainly appreciate folks wanting to actually have systems to rely on and use that mean they don't <em>have</em> to improvise or "fudge" around encounters that get gummed up through PC action. And if you can make a system that can get you at least halfway there, then more power to you! I'm always curious to see how things are able to evolve in that sphere.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 9246050, member: 7006"] All the best if you are able to actually work something out! It's a hard road, but seems like it would be very helpful for some if you can hammer something good into shape. But I'm always afraid that one of the hardest things anyone is going to run into as they try to mock up a system for rating challenges is that there are just so many ways to get around them that are not based on PC and monster statblocks, but rather DM adjudication. If all encounters were purely based on math you'd be able to build genuine expectations... but when things like charms, illusions, summons and the like can power down, power up or even completely remove encounters from a DM's expectations for a day... trying to actually suss out what things are "worth" in calculations can seem a nightmare. Like for instance, at the top of a supposedly difficult fight, a player might cast a single charm effect spell that affects the boss monster immediately in the encounter... and through that charm spell and how the players and DM then roleplay out the party's and boss's reaction-- that might result in the boss telling all of his minions to stand down, and the fight is averted. And thus an encounter that was created under the expectation that it would reduce party resources a certain amount (and thus be taken into account in the CR calculations in the number of encounters for the day)... that avoided fight has now blown those calculations up after a single spell. And as a result the DM might now possibly find subsequent encounters easier for the PCs than they expected them to be because the PCs didn't lose nearly the amount of resources they were "supposed" to. And can the CR system that is designed be able to take those changes in calculations into account? This has always been my own personal bugaboo about trying to use challenge rating systems, let alone create them. With so many PC at the table with so many abilities that interact with one another against so many monsters with so many abilities that can end or extend fights beyond expectation... I always feel like even thinking there should be a system to rely on is a road I don't want to go down. Better to just get into the mindset and experience of "winging it" each and every time and thus avoiding the disappointment of thinking a system is in place to use and then discovering it doesn't actually work. But I will also freely admit that my mindset is colored by my own beliefs in improvisation when it comes to RPGs, as well as being completely okay with "fudging" things to fix possible gaps in encounters when things go weird. So I certainly appreciate folks wanting to actually have systems to rely on and use that mean they don't [I]have[/I] to improvise or "fudge" around encounters that get gummed up through PC action. And if you can make a system that can get you at least halfway there, then more power to you! I'm always curious to see how things are able to evolve in that sphere. [/QUOTE]
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