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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 9250002" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Yeah, the power levels is a factor.</p><p></p><p>Monster roles are still there in 5e (flameskull is an artillery, ogre is a brute, etc), just not explicitly called out as such, even if the 4e-style abilities are reduced as there's less focus on minis/map based movement, compared to 4e.</p><p></p><p>Was having conversation about the issue of 5e's binary (no effect or royally screwed) conditions like stunned, paralyzed, charmed in the dominated sense, etc. Not exclusive to 5e, but definitely pronounced in this edition. The issue is that narrative/functionally there ARE monsters that we envision at different power levels in the sense that some monsters are used in medium to large groups, some by themselves, etc. And the way that binary conditions interact with those different power levels is an issue...</p><p></p><p>Stun a kobold? Who cares? There are more where that one came from.</p><p></p><p>Stun a gnoll in a mid-size pack of gnolls? Great, feels good, it's fun, doesn't disrupt the game!</p><p></p><p>Stun a PC? It sucks for the player because this isn't an OSR game with super fast turns.</p><p></p><p>Stun a boss monster? Players get a momentary thrill, but sucks for GM, and in long-run ends up sucking for players.</p><p></p><p>So if there are 4 use cases for stunned condition, and it only works as written in 1 out of 4... that's a design issue. Either the other 3 use cases need to design around Stunned as written OR Stunned needs to be reimagined.</p><p></p><p>Edit: Sorry, bit of a tangent from fixing CR. Related, but a tangent nevertheless.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 9250002, member: 20323"] Yeah, the power levels is a factor. Monster roles are still there in 5e (flameskull is an artillery, ogre is a brute, etc), just not explicitly called out as such, even if the 4e-style abilities are reduced as there's less focus on minis/map based movement, compared to 4e. Was having conversation about the issue of 5e's binary (no effect or royally screwed) conditions like stunned, paralyzed, charmed in the dominated sense, etc. Not exclusive to 5e, but definitely pronounced in this edition. The issue is that narrative/functionally there ARE monsters that we envision at different power levels in the sense that some monsters are used in medium to large groups, some by themselves, etc. And the way that binary conditions interact with those different power levels is an issue... Stun a kobold? Who cares? There are more where that one came from. Stun a gnoll in a mid-size pack of gnolls? Great, feels good, it's fun, doesn't disrupt the game! Stun a PC? It sucks for the player because this isn't an OSR game with super fast turns. Stun a boss monster? Players get a momentary thrill, but sucks for GM, and in long-run ends up sucking for players. So if there are 4 use cases for stunned condition, and it only works as written in 1 out of 4... that's a design issue. Either the other 3 use cases need to design around Stunned as written OR Stunned needs to be reimagined. Edit: Sorry, bit of a tangent from fixing CR. Related, but a tangent nevertheless. [/QUOTE]
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