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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Matrixryu" data-source="post: 4875173" data-attributes="member: 84553">Yay, you came back Hawken <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  Yea, this place does seem kinda dead...unfortionately I bet most 3.5 forums are like this right now.Yea, and honestly I think I like the saga edition version better.  It is just that it might be hard to get those rules working while making all the classes still do as much damage as they were supposed to, hmm.I guess I'm trying to do things the hard way: getting the game's attacks to work in a simple and logical manner while not having to worry about changing the difficulty of the game, haha.Wow, 18-20 attacks in a round is nuts, I would never allow a player to do that XDThe thing is, isn't it true that the attacks you get at BAB +11 and +16 are pretty much worthless except for killing very weak creatures and hoping that you get a random 20 when rolling them against strong ones?  The first bonus attack is probably the most important one, I wouldn't miss not having the final one honestly <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Limiting a character to 4 attacks a round kinda makes sense, though I worry that it would make a lot of feats suddenly become worthless and limits a character's options a bit.A few solutions I was looking at were giving characters an extra attack at BAB 6, then give them something they would still want at BAB 11 and 16.  Like one version was giving the equivalent of flurry of blows at BAB 6, and 11 and 16 decrease the penalties for using it.      Another idea was giving the normal extra attack at -5 at BAB 6, and then giving a bonus to damage to the first attack at 11 and the second at 16.  Unfortunately, this version has scaling problems with sneak attack if you give just flat bonuses (such as doubling base weapon damage).  I did some calcuations and found that a flat 50% bonus to damage for a 0/-5 attack round does almost the exact same damage as a 0/-5/-10/-15 attack routine, even with sneak attacks, but I'm not sure that I want to have to calculate 50% damage done, lol.  The -2/-2 , -1/-1, then 0/0 at BAB 16 routine was much simpler.  I would just apply those penalties to any other attacks the character made as well (such as from 2 weapon fighting) to encourage them to aim for BAB 16, lol. Yea, increasing damage for monsters is definately something I'm trying to look into.  I think I would have the damage increase be only based on BAB from character levels though, that way I can leave all the monsters in the monster manual alone, haha. Even when you increase their hit dice in the MM, their size usually increases and automatically increases their damage.Hmmm, maybe.....maybe with character levels, the damage could go up at a rate which depends on how many natural attacks the creature has?  That would fix it.  Say, it's BAB from char levels has to go up by +2 for every natural attack the creature has or something?Of course, that would have to be an alternative to itteritive attacks, lol.  Another possiblity is instead of giving creatures flat bonuses, you can give them an improved natural attack or simmilar bonus feat for their natural attacks every time that they would normally gain itteritive attacks.Lol, that's another thing that always bothered me: that creatures with natural attacks got to use them freely with no limits.  Technically speaking, they should be alternating between each kind of attack.Simply limiting their attacks is possible, but I would leave this alone unless there was some kind of simple template I could apply to all creatures to fix the problem.  Hmmm.Blah, a lot of good ideas being throw around, but no perfect solution in sight since the best thing would be a way to change attacks without having to rebalance the entire game.  I wish wizards had thought out all this attack stuff.  They should have realized it would get rediculous XD.Well, maybe I'm trying to get things too perfect.  I'll have to come up with theories based on the stuff you just said Hawken.  Doing something like directly placing a limit on the number of attacks sure would be game changing though, lol XD</blockquote>

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