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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Fixing iterative, unarmed, and natural attacks?
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<blockquote data-quote="Matrixryu" data-source="post: 4875948" data-attributes="member: 84553"><p>Oh, don't worry about it, I noticed that most of your discussions were with Syl. Ack, unfortionately I don't have time to type up as much for this reply as I should XD You're making some good points though.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yea, and you're exactly right XD I just don't want to have to apply my changes to do many things at once.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, I was thinking about the two-weapon fighting feats and the like. People might think that there's no point in two weapon fighting if all it would mean is their -15 attack would get replaced by a -0 (and all attacks also get a -2 on top of that). Well, maybe the first two weapon fighting feat would be worth it, but the others certainly wouldn't. Though, I guess that's the entire point if you're trying to limit characters to 4 attacks per round anyway XD</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True, but isn't this the same as the game currently is? Wizards and Rogues don't always get their 4th attack from bab +16. The only difference is that instead of those, their missing out on bonus damage on full attacks instead. I'm just switching out one BAB related bonus with another. So, doesn't that mean the core combat mechanics are applying to all classes just as much as they were before?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, believe it or not, I did some number crunching and it seems like the 50% damage idea causes players to do roughly the same amount of single target damage that they did before since they're getting the 50% boost instead of their 3rd and 4th attacks. Plus, it would only apply to their two main attacks, not all attacks(such as offhand attacks, unless I made it so that things like perfect multiweapon fighting applied those bonuses to offhand as well). Though, I didn't test it too much with crits, maybe I should look into those too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, I don't normally hand out class levels to monsters. I just worry about when you have something like player who chooses a monster race. For example, what classes are characters with dragons going to choose? Monk for unarmed attacks, or maybe fighter for the feats. Nothing else really benefits their natural attacks. I was thinking giving some sort of bonus to natural attacks for players using those races would even things out.</p><p></p><p>That's just one example, I don't really consider dragons to be too playable as characters. But I did play an rpg where I had an intellegent bear like character and I had to resort to unarmed attacks to get stronger, and it was silly because the unarmed attacks got stronger than my claw and bite attacks. There should be a way to just improve natural attacks directly without hacking the monk class so that it improves claw attacks or taking tons of 'improved natural attack' feats.</p><p></p><p>Yea, it might be possible to just increase natural attacks as the monster's hit dice increase, and it would probably work for a plain old monster, but isn't that interesting for a player who's running it. </p><p></p><p>Though, to answer your question about HD and monster sizes, I always considered HD to be a sign of a monster's natural/unnatural growth in strength rather than class levels, so they would naturally get larger as their hit dice increase. If it is impossible for a monster to 'grow' any larger, that's when class levels come in <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Matrixryu, post: 4875948, member: 84553"] Oh, don't worry about it, I noticed that most of your discussions were with Syl. Ack, unfortionately I don't have time to type up as much for this reply as I should XD You're making some good points though. Yea, and you're exactly right XD I just don't want to have to apply my changes to do many things at once. Oh, I was thinking about the two-weapon fighting feats and the like. People might think that there's no point in two weapon fighting if all it would mean is their -15 attack would get replaced by a -0 (and all attacks also get a -2 on top of that). Well, maybe the first two weapon fighting feat would be worth it, but the others certainly wouldn't. Though, I guess that's the entire point if you're trying to limit characters to 4 attacks per round anyway XD True, but isn't this the same as the game currently is? Wizards and Rogues don't always get their 4th attack from bab +16. The only difference is that instead of those, their missing out on bonus damage on full attacks instead. I'm just switching out one BAB related bonus with another. So, doesn't that mean the core combat mechanics are applying to all classes just as much as they were before? Actually, believe it or not, I did some number crunching and it seems like the 50% damage idea causes players to do roughly the same amount of single target damage that they did before since they're getting the 50% boost instead of their 3rd and 4th attacks. Plus, it would only apply to their two main attacks, not all attacks(such as offhand attacks, unless I made it so that things like perfect multiweapon fighting applied those bonuses to offhand as well). Though, I didn't test it too much with crits, maybe I should look into those too. Oh, I don't normally hand out class levels to monsters. I just worry about when you have something like player who chooses a monster race. For example, what classes are characters with dragons going to choose? Monk for unarmed attacks, or maybe fighter for the feats. Nothing else really benefits their natural attacks. I was thinking giving some sort of bonus to natural attacks for players using those races would even things out. That's just one example, I don't really consider dragons to be too playable as characters. But I did play an rpg where I had an intellegent bear like character and I had to resort to unarmed attacks to get stronger, and it was silly because the unarmed attacks got stronger than my claw and bite attacks. There should be a way to just improve natural attacks directly without hacking the monk class so that it improves claw attacks or taking tons of 'improved natural attack' feats. Yea, it might be possible to just increase natural attacks as the monster's hit dice increase, and it would probably work for a plain old monster, but isn't that interesting for a player who's running it. Though, to answer your question about HD and monster sizes, I always considered HD to be a sign of a monster's natural/unnatural growth in strength rather than class levels, so they would naturally get larger as their hit dice increase. If it is impossible for a monster to 'grow' any larger, that's when class levels come in ;) [/QUOTE]
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Fixing iterative, unarmed, and natural attacks?
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