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<blockquote data-quote="erf_beto" data-source="post: 4454155" data-attributes="member: 47533">Either way, he's got some interesting ideas going here. I don't think multiclass is necessarily broken, but I have to agree that it's not the ultimate-perfect-solution-to-all-your-problems-and-needs, and this is the most creative fix I've seen so far. Kudos! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp;I love the &quot;-1 hp&quot; thing, and agree with Exen Trik that there should be a &quot;+1 hp&quot; to balance &quot;Any/Defender&quot; multiclasses (per RAW, it's better to be a fighter/wizard than a wizard/fighter IMO). You should account for healing surges as well and also, multiclassing into wizard should give you &quot;-1 hp&quot; (perhaps -1hp every 2 levels).&nbsp;I don't like 1d3 damage for Warlock curse, but that's because I don't like 1d3 &quot;dice&quot;. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />&nbsp;As for the feats wich increase damage dice of striker's features and other &quot;get feats to compensate what you're loosing&quot; statements, I think it's okay as long as you DO invest feats in it. Perhaps scale the penalties in a way that getting the feats never allow you to be as good as if you were back then (like taking Toughness will never give your defender his prior max HP)&nbsp;The only one I'm not sure I like is your Wizard multiclass: the cantrips are okayish, but using arcane implements won't do you any good without wizard powers (same with cleric, but healing word is much more usefull than cantrips I guess). So, while I would invest a feat to get Sneak Attack without rogue powers, I'm not sure I would multiclass into a wizard without spells. I know I can take other feats to get the powers, but there should be a good reason to get the first)&nbsp;Brainstorm TimePerhaps, this could be just another form of multiclassing, that could exist in the same world as the RAW: the way I see it, what you propose is a concept where a character invests equally in the training of two classes (wich is expressed as the reduced ability of your &quot;primary&quot; class), while per RAW, you never give up anything (wich is part of the &quot;no penalties&quot; design of 4e), but chooses to dabble in a second class, meaning your fighter will never be a full time wizard, ever. Ever. It's yhe difference between being a Ftr1/Wiz9 and a Ftr5/Wiz5 in 3e.So, you could turn you fix into &quot;Dual Class&quot;, and balance them enough to coexist with the original multiclass feats. Of course, this would be terribly difficult, because of niche protection and all that... anyway, just brainstorming here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> &nbsp;Keep it up <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="erf_beto, post: 4454155, member: 47533"] Either way, he's got some interesting ideas going here. I don't think multiclass is necessarily broken, but I have to agree that it's not the ultimate-perfect-solution-to-all-your-problems-and-needs, and this is the most creative fix I've seen so far. Kudos! :D I love the "-1 hp" thing, and agree with Exen Trik that there should be a "+1 hp" to balance "Any/Defender" multiclasses (per RAW, it's better to be a fighter/wizard than a wizard/fighter IMO). You should account for healing surges as well and also, multiclassing into wizard should give you "-1 hp" (perhaps -1hp every 2 levels). I don't like 1d3 damage for Warlock curse, but that's because I don't like 1d3 "dice". :p As for the feats wich increase damage dice of striker's features and other "get feats to compensate what you're loosing" statements, I think it's okay as long as you DO invest feats in it. Perhaps scale the penalties in a way that getting the feats never allow you to be as good as if you were back then (like taking Toughness will never give your defender his prior max HP) The only one I'm not sure I like is your Wizard multiclass: the cantrips are okayish, but using arcane implements won't do you any good without wizard powers (same with cleric, but healing word is much more usefull than cantrips I guess). So, while I would invest a feat to get Sneak Attack without rogue powers, I'm not sure I would multiclass into a wizard without spells. I know I can take other feats to get the powers, but there should be a good reason to get the first) [B]Brainstorm Time[/B] Perhaps, this could be just another form of multiclassing, that could exist in the same world as the RAW: the way I see it, what you propose is a concept where a character invests equally in the training of two classes (wich is expressed as the reduced ability of your "primary" class), while per RAW, you never give up anything (wich is part of the "no penalties" design of 4e), but chooses to dabble in a second class, meaning your fighter will never be a full time wizard, ever. Ever. It's yhe difference between being a Ftr1/Wiz9 and a Ftr5/Wiz5 in 3e. So, you could turn you fix into "Dual Class", and balance them enough to coexist with the original multiclass feats. Of course, this would be terribly difficult, because of niche protection and all that... anyway, just brainstorming here. ;) Keep it up :) [/QUOTE]

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