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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Fixing Quick Draw
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<blockquote data-quote="Shadowlore" data-source="post: 2649659" data-attributes="member: 9509"><p>At the end or before means NOT during. Hello?! I have made no argument you can't draw before or after, just not during. If you are referring to real life iaijutsu, then yes I am familiar and proacticed (though not a master). It is the art of drawing, killing, resheathing the weapon based on a suprise threat while in a non-drawn state (such as sitting, standing on the street, or from combative postures). If you are referring to a gaming term then no because they probably got it wrong. Iaijutsu does not draw during a run or a charge. Nor does it concern the practitioner charging, nor have any of my studies in it involved drawing the weapon during a charge, before or after since the act of charging is not part of iaijutsu.</p><p></p><p>Iaijutsu is not a historic Japanese "dueling technique". It is an art that places emphasis on striking as part of drawing. Indeed in the history of dueling, it was not until the American West that we see duels taking place with weapons not drawn. Even the English pistol duel began with weapons drawn. Now, a fight or battle is different than a duel. In feudal Japan a Samurai may use iaijutsu to strike at another w/suprise, and the other may have responded and blocked using his mastery of iaijutsu but that was then end of iaijutsu for that combat as the weapons were drawn and a sword battle would begin, or they would acknowledge each other's mastery and cease. Or, of course, the non-initiator would be dead or wounded beyond ability to continue. Either way, iaijutsu was no longer in use for that fight. And no I don't give a rat's butt what your gaming book may say about that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Have you ever seen them draw *during* a charge? Go ahead and look. Most often you'll see western swordsmen draw before and eastern draw after, with the hand on the hilt of the sword. When the sword is already out you will generaly see a similar physical position with teh sword trailing the body. Personally I've found the eastern method on this sequence easier even though eastern swords are much lighter and it is generally easier to run with one in your hand than a bastard sword. Much of the reason that western style tends to draw before is that western swords in the beginning were more like metal clubs, thus you'd beat your opponent down and the charge increased damage due to the sword moving faster. Usual position for the sword during a western charge is up over the shoulder though there are variants. Eastern charges the charge was about positioning, not damage. There are other cultural reasons for the differences but this is probably enough explanation.</p><p></p><p>I've seen many people, in real life, sheathe swords in less than two seconds from ready and from attacks. Granted, we are not talking longswords, broadswords, and bastard swords. One of the reasons you don't see it in movies is because it is considered more cinematic to make quick strikes and then a slow dramatic sheathing. Much like the traditional movie idea of striking and then "maintaining the strike" as opposed to returning the body to ready position. Movies are great for inspiration, fun, and cinematic rules, but are horrible if you want to base reality on them. Just as "I saw it in a movie" is a horrible way to think about what can really be done "I didn't see it in any movies" is equally irrelevant.</p><p></p><p>As to more on sheathing, not all swords are stored in a scabbard. Sometimes they are stored in rings hung from your belt or loops built into a belt. In the latter is is certainly feasible to stow the weapon quickly and without any more focus than drawing the weapon. If you like you can look at gunfighters for cinematic rapid "sheathe" of weapons. I've got many friends who can draw shoot (hit) and replace their pistol in less than three seconds. Even get multiple shots off. Sure it's a small pistol but is both cinematic and real life. There are certain weapons that you can not "quick draw" such as a two handed sword strapped to your back and will certainly not be puttign ti away as a free action.</p><p></p><p>As to your "attention" in the for of the arm, how is it any more "attention" than drawing it. Both involve knowing exactly where the scabbrd/ring/hilt are and both involve manipulating the sword. As long as the weapon/stow method allow for quick draw, it allows form quick stow.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shadowlore, post: 2649659, member: 9509"] At the end or before means NOT during. Hello?! I have made no argument you can't draw before or after, just not during. If you are referring to real life iaijutsu, then yes I am familiar and proacticed (though not a master). It is the art of drawing, killing, resheathing the weapon based on a suprise threat while in a non-drawn state (such as sitting, standing on the street, or from combative postures). If you are referring to a gaming term then no because they probably got it wrong. Iaijutsu does not draw during a run or a charge. Nor does it concern the practitioner charging, nor have any of my studies in it involved drawing the weapon during a charge, before or after since the act of charging is not part of iaijutsu. Iaijutsu is not a historic Japanese "dueling technique". It is an art that places emphasis on striking as part of drawing. Indeed in the history of dueling, it was not until the American West that we see duels taking place with weapons not drawn. Even the English pistol duel began with weapons drawn. Now, a fight or battle is different than a duel. In feudal Japan a Samurai may use iaijutsu to strike at another w/suprise, and the other may have responded and blocked using his mastery of iaijutsu but that was then end of iaijutsu for that combat as the weapons were drawn and a sword battle would begin, or they would acknowledge each other's mastery and cease. Or, of course, the non-initiator would be dead or wounded beyond ability to continue. Either way, iaijutsu was no longer in use for that fight. And no I don't give a rat's butt what your gaming book may say about that. :p Have you ever seen them draw *during* a charge? Go ahead and look. Most often you'll see western swordsmen draw before and eastern draw after, with the hand on the hilt of the sword. When the sword is already out you will generaly see a similar physical position with teh sword trailing the body. Personally I've found the eastern method on this sequence easier even though eastern swords are much lighter and it is generally easier to run with one in your hand than a bastard sword. Much of the reason that western style tends to draw before is that western swords in the beginning were more like metal clubs, thus you'd beat your opponent down and the charge increased damage due to the sword moving faster. Usual position for the sword during a western charge is up over the shoulder though there are variants. Eastern charges the charge was about positioning, not damage. There are other cultural reasons for the differences but this is probably enough explanation. I've seen many people, in real life, sheathe swords in less than two seconds from ready and from attacks. Granted, we are not talking longswords, broadswords, and bastard swords. One of the reasons you don't see it in movies is because it is considered more cinematic to make quick strikes and then a slow dramatic sheathing. Much like the traditional movie idea of striking and then "maintaining the strike" as opposed to returning the body to ready position. Movies are great for inspiration, fun, and cinematic rules, but are horrible if you want to base reality on them. Just as "I saw it in a movie" is a horrible way to think about what can really be done "I didn't see it in any movies" is equally irrelevant. As to more on sheathing, not all swords are stored in a scabbard. Sometimes they are stored in rings hung from your belt or loops built into a belt. In the latter is is certainly feasible to stow the weapon quickly and without any more focus than drawing the weapon. If you like you can look at gunfighters for cinematic rapid "sheathe" of weapons. I've got many friends who can draw shoot (hit) and replace their pistol in less than three seconds. Even get multiple shots off. Sure it's a small pistol but is both cinematic and real life. There are certain weapons that you can not "quick draw" such as a two handed sword strapped to your back and will certainly not be puttign ti away as a free action. As to your "attention" in the for of the arm, how is it any more "attention" than drawing it. Both involve knowing exactly where the scabbrd/ring/hilt are and both involve manipulating the sword. As long as the weapon/stow method allow for quick draw, it allows form quick stow. [/QUOTE]
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