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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 4632762" data-attributes="member: 5889">The argument is not the same.When you compare class abilities, you have to compare the whole package together.Paladin's get lay on hands, divine challenge, good armor, weapon profi, defender hitpoints, and divine fortune or divine mettle.Clerics get holy word, the ability to add wisdom to healing, leader hitpoints and prof, and divine fortune or turn undead.When I compare a 1st level cleric and paladin, they should be roughly balanced as far as their roles go. And a 2nd level cleric and paladin, still balanced, etc.Once we look at the utility, the two classes should theoretically be balanced, meaning every power at each level among the classes should be roughly balanced with each other (afterall, that's the point of having powers by level in the first place).Now I have no problem saying that sacred circle shouldn't be as good a party buff as shield of faith, afterall the cleric is a leader, the paladin is not. But that means sacred circle should perhaps do something...defenderish to compensate.But in this case, both are party buffs. That is all they do. Both are dailies, both are the same level. They should have roughly the same effectiveness, and they do not. That's why I recommended making sacred circle an encounter power. Now its still not as good buff as shield of faith, but its more frequenty. Different....but balanced.As for the other paladin powers, I'm a fan of the +4 to all diplomacy rolls for an encounter myself, I like skill based powers. That third one, yeah that thing is garbage<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 4632762, member: 5889"] The argument is not the same. When you compare class abilities, you have to compare the whole package together. Paladin's get lay on hands, divine challenge, good armor, weapon profi, defender hitpoints, and divine fortune or divine mettle. Clerics get holy word, the ability to add wisdom to healing, leader hitpoints and prof, and divine fortune or turn undead. When I compare a 1st level cleric and paladin, they should be roughly balanced as far as their roles go. And a 2nd level cleric and paladin, still balanced, etc. Once we look at the utility, the two classes should theoretically be balanced, meaning every power at each level among the classes should be roughly balanced with each other (afterall, that's the point of having powers by level in the first place). Now I have no problem saying that sacred circle shouldn't be as good a party buff as shield of faith, afterall the cleric is a leader, the paladin is not. But that means sacred circle should perhaps do something...defenderish to compensate. But in this case, both are party buffs. That is all they do. Both are dailies, both are the same level. They should have roughly the same effectiveness, and they do not. That's why I recommended making sacred circle an encounter power. Now its still not as good buff as shield of faith, but its more frequenty. Different....but balanced. As for the other paladin powers, I'm a fan of the +4 to all diplomacy rolls for an encounter myself, I like skill based powers. That third one, yeah that thing is garbage:) [/QUOTE]

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