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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7827303" data-attributes="member: 15700">I didn’t want to hijack the other thread. And I know we’ve had dozens of these discussions. But there’s always a key part that seems to be missing in those other discussions, one I mentioned in that thread. That is, looking at the fighter class in total context.  I.e, “casters can do X, and fighters can’t” while ignoring all the things fighters can do that casters can’t.But first, let me just address a strawman that always gets thrown out there. No one who says the fighter doesn’t need fixing is saying the edition is perfect and you can’t criticize it. So let’s just avoid that type of hyperbolic strawman right now, and keep it out of the thread.Ok, continuing...what I mean by total context is:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">*The game is designed for all common play styles, so there must be a mechanically simpler class like the fighter</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">*Not every class is going to appeal to you, based on point number one, thus proposed changes aren’t needs. They are wants. That’s a difference</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">*Based on the requirements of class design, the champion fighter does exactly what it’s supposed to do. Ergo, not broken. Not doing what you want =/= broken</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">*The fighter has additional beneficial features that casters do not get, such as heavy armor, any weapon, more hit points, infinite sustained damage capability, additional feats (which often are more impactful and powerful than any other built in class feature of other classes). These benefits can’t be ignored when comparing what a nova class can do that can do better things, but with many other restrictions tied on that balance them out (limited uses, interruption, components, squishier, concentration, etc)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">*A simpler class that has less moving parts is not just a newb class, or for new players. Many experienced players prefer that style, just like many experienced players prefer a mundane class</li> </ul>So, knowing all of the above are objectively true, how do you “fix” the fighter while keeping all of the above in play?  Many things I’ve heard are just giving the fighter powers that are basically for all intents and purposes, spells. I.e., who cares what you call it if does the exact same thing as a spell does and it’s reality bending. Those suggestions break several of the points above, however. It takes away from the simple class some people prefer, takes away the mundane class some people prefer, and combined with the additional benefits, can make the class unbalanced.For purposes of this discussion, I’m looking for suggestions that don’t counter any of the above requirements. Also, I know players who want more “powers” options out of their fighters can always play an Eldritch knight or battlemaster so the champion can be left well alone, but for this discussion, let’s assume we are talking about the champion.In my opinion, there are a couple of things that could be done that still meet the above list and can address many of the grievances I hear. These are:*changing remarkable athlete to give full prof bonuses to any str or dex skill, and double prof bonus to any two proficient skills. -OR- maybe something along the lines of having a climbing and swimming speed that equals your movement speed, and jumping distances increase by prof bonus.*the first four ASI improvements also allow you to choose one saving throw you’re not proficient in, and gain that proficiency.* with each additional ASI improvement past the first four, choose one damage type, and gain resistance to that damage (various elemental, psychic, slashing, etc)</blockquote>

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