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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7828195" data-attributes="member: 15700">Once again, those are extra feats we're talking about.&nbsp; No other class gets those.&nbsp; So yeah, a cleric could choose to spend an ASI on the same feat as a fighter, but they'd be giving up more to do so, because a fighter can choose 2 options without giving up any of the core 4 ASIs every else gets., and the cleric loses one of their 4 ASI to get the feat.&nbsp; I have no idea why you'd say they'd do it better.&nbsp; By virtue of more ASIs, fighters would have higher ability scores which means higher modifiers towards those skills.&nbsp;&nbsp; Seems like you have it backwards. Setting aside how &quot;fighters have non combat deficiencies&quot; is hardly a truism that people all agree on, those two extra feats offer that choice without impacting any of the other 4 ASIsIf it's a false choice, it's only because you (general you) can't help yourself but put all of your options into combat and that's it.&nbsp; That's hardly a game design issue, that's a you willpower issue.Like I said above, pretend the fighter doesn't get 2 extra ASIs.&nbsp; Instead, at those levels they have a hard baked in feature that gives them out of combat focused functionality.&nbsp; Is that what you'd prefer?&nbsp; That's like any other class then, and you don't have a choice of what features you get as a class.&nbsp; But the fighter gives you a choice.&nbsp; Isn't having a choice better than to be forced to get a mandatory ability?It's like this:Selection A:&nbsp; you get 4 choices off the menu, plus coffee and donuts.Selection B: you get 6 choices off the menu.Group A: Selection B sucks because it doesn't come with a coffee option!Group B: we don't even like coffee, so it's nice we can choose another option, and if we do want coffee, we can still choose to get it.Group A: false choice! Because if you could get 6 meats, who would choose coffee!Group B: so you'd rather be forced to have coffee because if you had another option you can't resist the meat?&nbsp; Ok then...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7828195, member: 15700"] Once again, those are [I][B]extra [/B][/I]feats we're talking about. No other class gets those. So yeah, a cleric could choose to spend an ASI on the same feat as a fighter, but they'd be giving up more to do so, because a fighter can choose 2 options without giving up any of the core 4 ASIs every else gets., and the cleric loses one of their 4 ASI to get the feat. I have no idea why you'd say they'd do it better. By virtue of more ASIs, fighters would have higher ability scores which means higher modifiers towards those skills. Seems like you have it backwards. Setting aside how "fighters have non combat deficiencies" is hardly a truism that people all agree on, those two extra feats offer that choice without impacting any of the other 4 ASIs If it's a false choice, it's only because you (general you) can't help yourself but put all of your options into combat and that's it. That's hardly a game design issue, that's a you willpower issue. Like I said above, pretend the fighter doesn't get 2 extra ASIs. Instead, at those levels they have a hard baked in feature that gives them out of combat focused functionality. Is that what you'd prefer? That's like any other class then, and you don't have a choice of what features you get as a class. But the fighter gives you a [I]choice[/I]. Isn't having a choice better than to be forced to get a mandatory ability? It's like this: Selection A: you get 4 choices off the menu, plus coffee and donuts. Selection B: you get 6 choices off the menu. Group A: Selection B sucks because it doesn't come with a coffee option! Group B: we don't even like coffee, so it's nice we can choose another option, and if we do want coffee, we can still choose to get it. Group A: false choice! Because if you could get 6 meats, who would choose coffee! Group B: so you'd rather be forced to have coffee because if you had another option you can't resist the meat? Ok then... [/QUOTE]

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