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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7828436" data-attributes="member: 6919838">I dont assume champions are sufficiently balanced. I know from experience that the fighter class is chosen a lot, plays well enough to meet expectations of most players who chose it and that in play as GM I have more than enough base class features to hang key moments on that I can use its &quot;class&quot; every bit as much as others. That gets it well out of &quot;extremely underpoweed&quot; and into close enough from class alone. Since champion is the &quot;simpler option fighter&quot; that prettily much mostly just adds numbers it does not give me more hooks yo use, just means its gonna show a bit more often than the core class. That gets it into &quot;close enough&quot; based on the play I have seen and read about of it and the others.Might it need a tweak in certain style of game- sure - but that's gonna be true of any of them. But as an example I already gave, the fighter class is often viewed as offense only from the white room approach of optimized DPR but a lot of its class features are more focused on defense and sustain - heavy armor, shield, d10 hd, easy to focus on con, second wind, indomitable plus even the use of say action surge for options other than &quot;hit 'em again&quot; like a well-timed dodge or disengage. In play, even without using the action surge, this is more than enough to show up and be seen in moments of wow in actual play pretty easily and frequently.Now did emphasize the high strength heavy fighter there, but its also good for the DeX-fighter option perhaps even more &quot;fighter bring one of the few classes where you really have a choice if two different prime stats in an either or choice. Move to the high dex, medium armor and you still get pretty easy to strong AC, similar offense, more range and a lot more skills needed up by both your stat and your athlete feature at 7th without spending a skill point. In the second more I see and have seen features and results from chouces made in actual play that rise well enough into the play yo be not &quot;extremely underpowered&quot; and indeed even to get to &quot;enough&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7828436, member: 6919838"] I dont assume champions are sufficiently balanced. I know from experience that the fighter class is chosen a lot, plays well enough to meet expectations of most players who chose it and that in play as GM I have more than enough base class features to hang key moments on that I can use its "class" every bit as much as others. That gets it well out of "extremely underpoweed" and into close enough from class alone. Since champion is the "simpler option fighter" that prettily much mostly just adds numbers it does not give me more hooks yo use, just means its gonna show a bit more often than the core class. That gets it into "close enough" based on the play I have seen and read about of it and the others. Might it need a tweak in certain style of game- sure - but that's gonna be true of any of them. But as an example I already gave, the fighter class is often viewed as offense only from the white room approach of optimized DPR but a lot of its class features are more focused on defense and sustain - heavy armor, shield, d10 hd, easy to focus on con, second wind, indomitable plus even the use of say action surge for options other than "hit 'em again" like a well-timed dodge or disengage. In play, even without using the action surge, this is more than enough to show up and be seen in moments of wow in actual play pretty easily and frequently. Now did emphasize the high strength heavy fighter there, but its also good for the DeX-fighter option perhaps even more "fighter bring one of the few classes where you really have a choice if two different prime stats in an either or choice. Move to the high dex, medium armor and you still get pretty easy to strong AC, similar offense, more range and a lot more skills needed up by both your stat and your athlete feature at 7th without spending a skill point. In the second more I see and have seen features and results from chouces made in actual play that rise well enough into the play yo be not "extremely underpowered" and indeed even to get to "enough". [/QUOTE]

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