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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7828456" data-attributes="member: 6880599">To avoid a strawman argument you really need to state these grievances. You have written a long thought post making it very clear that you want to argue off a specific point. Then you fail to list any points of grievance about the champion sub-class directly. Only the below "fixes" are mentioned. So now we are all required to make straw man arguments because your inferring a problem without defining it, then if you don't like our answer you just claim its a strawman argument and that was never your intended point of topic. So before I try and add any input here... I am going to ask "what your solutions below are fixes for?", then we need you to stat the grievances you hear that cause them to be required, or no forward progress can be made due to lack of mutual understand of what the issues is to begin with. Better movement and expertise in skills they already had? So they are simply just better at what they already did... Do they have mobility issues or some deficiency caused by the skills they already have? Without explanation your just stealing thieves Expertise class feature.Proficiency in all saves? I mean again, your making the class stronger, but without explanation your just stealing Diamond Soul feature. What use with the champion sub-class are you fixing?So your making them much harder to kill through damage resistance which is like stealing the barbarian rage feature without the flaws and unlimited in use since you don't have any requirement to maintain it or limited number of activations like rage does. Overall it looks like jealousy of other class, but more over you could easily multi-class to gain 2 of the 3 features.  They do make the champion sub-class better but actually, all together they would make it pretty broken in my opinion, since you stole three of the best and most unique features of other classes. I might suggest something with a lighter touch, like a blanket damage reduction equal to champion's constitution modifier, advantage on all saving through vs instead of proficiency (because its still capped by the modifier), and an extra skill proficiency from the fighter skill list for variety.  However, I can't say that's at all in the right train of thought because it has not been clearly defined that the issue is survivability or versatility of build, so I am forced it to guessing at the risk of being told this is a strawman argument.</blockquote>

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