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Fixing the fighter (I know...)
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7828696" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I can't believe I slogged all the way through that. :wow:</p><p></p><p>The thing is, this whole thread is based on a false premise. The premise is that there is this apparent need to make fighters equal to casters. That's not the issue. The basic issue is this:</p><p></p><p>Fighters play the same game all the way through. From 1st level to 20th level, a fighter doesn't really change a whole lot. Sure, they might succeed more often and they can do more of the same stuff they could attempt at 1st level, but, they can't do anything actually different. </p><p></p><p>Casters, OTOH, do not. They play completely different games at 1st level and at 20th level. </p><p></p><p>The casters can grow into any fantasy archetype - your wizard can become Merlin or Dumbledore. But, the non-magical types have a hard ceiling that they cannot ever be allowed to break through. You can be Conan or Aragorn, but, you can NEVER be Beowulf or Hercules, or Odysseus. Because anything that is outside the realm of the mundane can only ever be accomplished by magic.</p><p></p><p>So, all these arguments about fighters getting this or that out of combat ribbon miss the point. It's not about being equal to the casters. It's about actually getting to emulate the fantasy stories that we read as children (or adults maybe). The casters, they get it right out of the gate. Play a caster long enough and you can emulate any fantasy "caster" you want, from Gandalf to... well... Dumbledore. </p><p></p><p>But, a fighter that can swim across the ocean? Drink a lake dry? Leap across the tops of trees? Don't be daft. You can't do that without magic. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> </p><p></p><p>So, while the casters are busy being the legends of stories, the non-casters get to be Conan or Fafrd - pretty cool in their own right, but, they never, ever are allowed to be anything more than that.</p><p></p><p>THAT'S the issue. That you can make yourself useful by taking this or that background, who cares? Any character could take the same background and be just as useful? You could take this or that feat twice over the course of 20 levels? Are any of those feats going to let you jump 60 feet? Fly? Turn invisible? Cut off heads? Slay 10 giants? Pierce the hide of the Nemean Lion? </p><p></p><p>Because, guess what? My wizard can do all those things. Sure, I can't do them all the time. Fair enough. But, I can do them infinitely more times than you can, because you can't EVER do them as a fighter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7828696, member: 22779"] I can't believe I slogged all the way through that. :wow: The thing is, this whole thread is based on a false premise. The premise is that there is this apparent need to make fighters equal to casters. That's not the issue. The basic issue is this: Fighters play the same game all the way through. From 1st level to 20th level, a fighter doesn't really change a whole lot. Sure, they might succeed more often and they can do more of the same stuff they could attempt at 1st level, but, they can't do anything actually different. Casters, OTOH, do not. They play completely different games at 1st level and at 20th level. The casters can grow into any fantasy archetype - your wizard can become Merlin or Dumbledore. But, the non-magical types have a hard ceiling that they cannot ever be allowed to break through. You can be Conan or Aragorn, but, you can NEVER be Beowulf or Hercules, or Odysseus. Because anything that is outside the realm of the mundane can only ever be accomplished by magic. So, all these arguments about fighters getting this or that out of combat ribbon miss the point. It's not about being equal to the casters. It's about actually getting to emulate the fantasy stories that we read as children (or adults maybe). The casters, they get it right out of the gate. Play a caster long enough and you can emulate any fantasy "caster" you want, from Gandalf to... well... Dumbledore. But, a fighter that can swim across the ocean? Drink a lake dry? Leap across the tops of trees? Don't be daft. You can't do that without magic. :erm: So, while the casters are busy being the legends of stories, the non-casters get to be Conan or Fafrd - pretty cool in their own right, but, they never, ever are allowed to be anything more than that. THAT'S the issue. That you can make yourself useful by taking this or that background, who cares? Any character could take the same background and be just as useful? You could take this or that feat twice over the course of 20 levels? Are any of those feats going to let you jump 60 feet? Fly? Turn invisible? Cut off heads? Slay 10 giants? Pierce the hide of the Nemean Lion? Because, guess what? My wizard can do all those things. Sure, I can't do them all the time. Fair enough. But, I can do them infinitely more times than you can, because you can't EVER do them as a fighter. [/QUOTE]
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