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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7829217" data-attributes="member: 996">A fighter gains zero breadth as it levels, sure, but its not like a T.rex (CR 8) has a lotta breadth over a crocodile (CR 2) - check out their bite attacks.&nbsp; It's a bigger croc with bigger numbers and a tail attack it can't use going mano-y-dino with a lone 8th level fighter!&nbsp; (It can, but it's not as good as biting.)Really, the T.rex is the monster equivalent of a Champion Fighter, that way.(Dragon could be a different story, of course.)But, yes, if he loses, the fighter, is just a snack. 200lb of primate just doesn't fill up a huge lizard......OK, unless you subscribe to hp as meat, then the CR24 dragon chowing down on a 20th level fighter is going to feel like it ate a ton.&nbsp;Nod. When looking at a class, its worthwhile to look at how it rises above the baseline.&nbsp; Under BA, it's really only Expertise that rises above in terms of skills. Anything you can get from a background or race - skill, proficiency (weapon, armor or tool) - doesn't really count for much.Then there's DPR, every class grinds it out, via Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, or/and scaling Cantrips.&nbsp; And then layers resources atop it - spells (spells &amp; more spells), smite, ki, action surge, rage.&nbsp;It seems, from comments MM has made, that class design balance is rooted in damage potential - slots have a hp value, whether damage or for healing - and without much regard for combos or situationality(?)So the fighter, all single-target-DPR all the time, is weighted the same as much more varied or versatile designs.I'm not convinced the fighter stacks up to Conan.&nbsp; He wasn't just a barbarian, but a thief, pirate, general and king.&nbsp; You don't get backgrounds after the fact, nor multiple ones like in 4e (were, only one of them granted a benefit, before anyone freaks), so a PC Conan'd be faking a lot of it.&nbsp; Then there's the range of arms he used to seemingly great effect, from loincloth &amp; dagger to archery to axes to sword &amp; full mail he was pretty capable.&nbsp; Most versions of D&amp;D make fighters more specialized than that.&nbsp; And there's the big pile of dead bad guys thing 5e, specifically, doesn't do too well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7829217, member: 996"] A fighter gains zero breadth as it levels, sure, but its not like a T.rex (CR 8) has a lotta breadth over a crocodile (CR 2) - check out their bite attacks. It's a bigger croc with bigger numbers and a tail attack [I]it can't use going mano-y-dino[/I] with a lone 8th level fighter! (It can, but it's not as good as biting.) Really, the T.rex is the monster equivalent of a Champion Fighter, that way. (Dragon could be a different story, of course.) But, yes, if he loses, the fighter, is just a snack. 200lb of primate just doesn't fill up a huge lizard... ...OK, unless you subscribe to hp as meat, then the CR24 dragon chowing down on a 20th level fighter is going to feel like it ate a ton. Nod. When looking at a class, its worthwhile to look at how it rises above the baseline. Under BA, it's really only Expertise that rises above in terms of skills. Anything you can get from a background or race - skill, proficiency (weapon, armor or tool) - doesn't really count for much. Then there's DPR, every class grinds it out, via Extra Attack, Sneak Attack, or/and scaling Cantrips. And then layers resources atop it - spells (spells & more spells), smite, ki, action surge, rage. It seems, from comments MM has made, that class design balance is rooted in damage potential - slots have a hp value, whether damage or for healing - and without much regard for combos or situationality(?) So the fighter, all single-target-DPR all the time, is weighted the same as much more varied or versatile designs. I'm not convinced the fighter stacks up to Conan. He wasn't just a barbarian, but a thief, pirate, general and king. You don't get backgrounds after the fact, nor multiple ones like in 4e (were, only one of them granted a benefit, before anyone freaks), so a PC Conan'd be faking a lot of it. Then there's the range of arms he used to seemingly great effect, from loincloth & dagger to archery to axes to sword & full mail he was pretty capable. Most versions of D&D make fighters more specialized than that. And there's the big pile of dead bad guys thing 5e, specifically, doesn't do too well. [/QUOTE]

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