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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7841200" data-attributes="member: 6801845">I think what really bothers me is that this whole thing is so non-nonsensical.&nbsp; Do fighters cast spells or have supernatural abilities out of the box?&nbsp; Other than a couple of sub-classes, no.&nbsp; They're fighters, not spell casters.So how does any PC contribute outside of combat barring spells?Through skills.&nbsp; Thanks to backgrounds you get several.&nbsp; Don't have a high charisma and want to be the party face?&nbsp; Well, sorry you should have built your character differently.&nbsp; Having stats that only contribute to combat and then complaining that you didn't take a sorcerer or bard is not the fault of the game.&nbsp; You start with 4-6 proficiencies, how many do you really need?&nbsp; How many people really use more than that?&nbsp; Between race and background you have access to all of them.There's also the Prodigy feat from Xanathars. You get more feats and expertise by another name.&nbsp; Which yes, feats are optional blah, blah blah.&nbsp; But they are used in the vast majority of games and it's a simple solution.Even when it comes to spells, I rarely see spells used other than rituals outside of combat.&nbsp; Even then they rarely change the direction of the game in any significant fashion.&nbsp; Yes it's fun to teleport halfway across the world at higher levels but the only reason you needed to do that in the first place was because the DM knew you could.&nbsp; There's always Ritual Caster if it really turns your crank.But the primary way any PC in my campaign contributes outside of combat is through role playing and the decisions they make for their character.&nbsp; If you feel that you can't RP a fighter, I feel sorry for you.&nbsp; If you're a DM and neither RP nor decisions are important to your game, well, it's not a game I personally would want to play and I feel sorry for your players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7841200, member: 6801845"] I think what really bothers me is that this whole thing is so non-nonsensical. Do fighters cast spells or have supernatural abilities out of the box? Other than a couple of sub-classes, no. They're fighters, not spell casters. So how does any PC contribute outside of combat barring spells? Through skills. Thanks to backgrounds you get several. Don't have a high charisma and want to be the party face? Well, sorry you should have built your character differently. Having stats that only contribute to combat and then complaining that you didn't take a sorcerer or bard is not the fault of the game. You start with 4-6 proficiencies, how many do you really need? How many people really use more than that? Between race and background you have access to all of them. There's also the Prodigy feat from Xanathars. You get more feats and expertise by another name. Which yes, feats are optional blah, blah blah. But they are used in the vast majority of games and it's a simple solution. Even when it comes to spells, I rarely see spells used other than rituals outside of combat. Even then they rarely change the direction of the game in any significant fashion. Yes it's fun to teleport halfway across the world at higher levels but the only reason you needed to do that in the first place was because the DM knew you could. There's always Ritual Caster if it really turns your crank. But the primary way [I]any [/I]PC[I] [/I]in my campaign contributes outside of combat is through role playing and the decisions they make for their character. If you feel that you can't RP a fighter, I feel sorry for you. If you're a DM and neither RP nor decisions are important to your game, well, it's not a game I personally would want to play and I feel sorry for your players. [/QUOTE]

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