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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 7845412" data-attributes="member: 6802951">The spin and goalposts of the thread currently seem to be: &quot;While the classes are reasonably well-matched in combat, the Fighter is a class that seems lacking compared to many of the other classes in the other two pillars of the game. What sort of things can we suggest that would let the fighter class be able to contribute to the party in the social and exploration pillars at the same level as the Rogue or Wizard for example?&quot;&nbsp;To be able to play in the combat arena, the Rogue does not have to have the damage output as good as the Fighter. However I do not seriously think that many rogue players would like sneak attack to be removed.&nbsp;I'd probably quibble at the numbers: I don't regard proficiency in languages, artisan tools, gaming sets or musical instruments as valuable as actual skill proficiencies. Call them half as good and you end up with 7 vs 7 with that 4:2 ratio of expertise to the Rogue. Assuming the Rogue doesn't also use their extra ASI to do the same as the Fighter.Furthermore the Rogue has reliable talent, which acts as a multiplier on all skill effectiveness, particularly expertise: - Similar to the way the Duelling Fighting style acts as a multiplier to Extra Attack.&nbsp;We're after parity in ability to contribute ideally, not identical mechanics. Giving the Fighter the skill proficiencies to be able to contribute as much as the Rogue in the Social and Exploration pillars is very much a fallback position. This thread is looking at ways of approaching equality without mimicking another class.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 7845412, member: 6802951"] The spin and goalposts of the thread currently seem to be: "While the classes are reasonably well-matched in combat, the Fighter is a class that seems lacking compared to many of the other classes in the other two pillars of the game. What sort of things can we suggest that would let the fighter class be able to contribute to the party in the social and exploration pillars at the same level as the Rogue or Wizard for example?" To be able to play in the combat arena, the Rogue does not have to have the damage output as good as the Fighter. However I do not seriously think that many rogue players would like sneak attack to be removed. I'd probably quibble at the numbers: I don't regard proficiency in languages, artisan tools, gaming sets or musical instruments as valuable as actual skill proficiencies. Call them half as good and you end up with 7 vs 7 with that 4:2 ratio of expertise to the Rogue. Assuming the Rogue doesn't also use their extra ASI to do the same as the Fighter. Furthermore the Rogue has reliable talent, which acts as a multiplier on all skill effectiveness, particularly expertise: - Similar to the way the Duelling Fighting style acts as a multiplier to Extra Attack. We're after parity in ability to contribute ideally, not identical mechanics. Giving the Fighter the skill proficiencies to be able to contribute as much as the Rogue in the Social and Exploration pillars is very much a fallback position. This thread is looking at ways of approaching equality without mimicking another class. [/QUOTE]

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