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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7848474" data-attributes="member: 18">Pretty sure I have some posts on this very forum arguing precisely this, so yeah, I can hardly disagree. I did feel like skill challenges in general dragged in all the PCs better than 5E's skill system, too, so that helped a bit.You're going to be mad but what really made 4E Fighter work for one of my group was the 4E Ritual Caster feat, which actually made him incredibly useful out of combat, and he saved the other PCs several times with that. But er, yeah okay, I see how that looks with the casting spells and so on... (it fit his PC's background really well, which is why he originally took it).I dunno that that would have got him out of T5, but it would certainly have made him a lot more interesting and fun to play, especially 1-10, which was what worked best in 3.XE (as with most editions).Yeah, but it's just like, somehow not enough in 5E. Having a super-high AC is something a lot of classes in 5E manage, but it was basically only Fighters and the odd Cleric* who managed in 2E, and DPR was Fighterland back then. He remains, technically, the king of DPR (I think? He's certainly up there), but now instead of being essentially unchallenged, he is surrounded by angry Warlocks and Barbarians, and even others.* = Let's be real, it wasn't really Clerics in most 2E games - it was Speciality Priests. Seemed like after about 1992-1994 either you were playing the FR or Planescape, in which case, Speciality Priest, or Dark Sun, in which case bizarre Elemental Cleric.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 7848474, member: 18"] Pretty sure I have some posts on this very forum arguing precisely this, so yeah, I can hardly disagree. I did feel like skill challenges in general dragged in all the PCs better than 5E's skill system, too, so that helped a bit. You're going to be mad but what really made 4E Fighter work for one of my group was the 4E Ritual Caster feat, which actually made him incredibly useful out of combat, and he saved the other PCs several times with that. But er, yeah okay, I see how that looks with the casting spells and so on... (it fit his PC's background really well, which is why he originally took it). I dunno that that would have got him out of T5, but it would certainly have made him a lot more interesting and fun to play, especially 1-10, which was what worked best in 3.XE (as with most editions). Yeah, but it's just like, somehow not enough in 5E. Having a super-high AC is something a lot of classes in 5E manage, but it was basically only Fighters and the odd Cleric* who managed in 2E, and DPR was Fighterland back then. He remains, technically, the king of DPR (I think? He's certainly up there), but now instead of being essentially unchallenged, he is surrounded by angry Warlocks and Barbarians, and even others. * = Let's be real, it wasn't really Clerics in most 2E games - it was Speciality Priests. Seemed like after about 1992-1994 either you were playing the FR or Planescape, in which case, Speciality Priest, or Dark Sun, in which case bizarre Elemental Cleric. [/QUOTE]

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