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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 6068077" data-attributes="member: 7635">How is charm person different than making a diplomacy check, using a nonweapon proficiency, or the DM making the reaction roll? None are guaranteed fiat (even charm person allows saving throw, ruining so-called fiat for lucky rollers or barkeeps with high saves). It really sounds like the OP wants the class ability Derail Plot where he can do things just because he wants to, even if its only 1/day.&nbsp; Well, hopefully the squishy is smart enough to move back on his turn. Seriously, is the rogue and wizard players brain dead in these scenarios? Can't they figure out how to get out of melee range while the fighter pins down the monster? A PF fighter's job it keep foes away from softer targets. They usually do this through limiting foe's movement. They're job is NOT to force a monster to attack it while everyone else stands around whacking it. Monster's attack fighter's because a.) they hurt monsters alot and b.) the fighter has locked down its movement so that it really doesn't have any better foes in range. It doesn't do it by forcing the monster to attack him or suffer additional damage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 6068077, member: 7635"] How is charm person different than making a diplomacy check, using a nonweapon proficiency, or the DM making the reaction roll? None are guaranteed fiat (even charm person allows saving throw, ruining so-called fiat for lucky rollers or barkeeps with high saves). It really sounds like the OP wants the class ability Derail Plot where he can do things just because he wants to, even if its only 1/day. Well, hopefully the squishy is smart enough to move back on his turn. Seriously, is the rogue and wizard players brain dead in these scenarios? Can't they figure out how to get out of melee range while the fighter pins down the monster? A PF fighter's job it keep foes away from softer targets. They usually do this through limiting foe's movement. They're job is NOT to force a monster to attack it while everyone else stands around whacking it. Monster's attack fighter's because a.) they hurt monsters alot and b.) the fighter has locked down its movement so that it really doesn't have any better foes in range. It doesn't do it by forcing the monster to attack him or suffer additional damage. [/QUOTE]

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