NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6068208" data-attributes="member: 87792">Exactly. Classes change over time - especially the ranger. In 4e the fighter gained flavour rather than remaining truly generic it became able to be the person most people wanted it to be. The guy leading from the front who no one would dare turn their back on because they knew that the fighter would mess them up.You have watched the edition wars? 4e did nerf the damn spells. And IMO rightfully so. People for whatever reason hated that. They claim it makes magic no longer special.PHB Fighters are amongst the most damaging PCs if you take the high damage (or even better the multi attack) powers. And they are still pretty good at defence. They aren't quite as high damage as optimised Slayers, raging barbarians, sneak-attack-all-the-time rogues, or cuisineart or air-black-with-arrows rangers. But greatweapon or tempest (two weapon) fighters built for damage can keep up with almost any other striker. And they do that while being more defendery than any pathfinder fighter - Stand Still takes the threat away from a fighter making its AoO do no damage, Step Up does no damage, Bodyguard also takes an AoO (once more taking away stickiness).A Pathfinder Fighter is a Striker who can take a few feats to do a little defendering - but then so can a Slayer. I can give my Slayer a Defender Aura with the Cavalier Multiclass feat (he gets no significant punishment to go with it but this more than matches Bodyguard), the Glowering Threat utility power at level 2 that draws everyone's attention (IIRC it's -5 for everyone in 15 ft to attack anyone except my slayer) - and no one in their senses risks an opportunity attack from a slayer. In short if I want a defendery Slayer I have one working by level 2 that is still a Slayer and still hits like one, but is more defendery than a Pathfinder fighter is likely to get (remember Bodyguard and Stand Still both use your limited AoOs and In Harm's Way, Step Up, and Saving Shield all use up your single immediate action per round whereas my Slayer's Defender Aura is like everyone adjacent having the Bodyguard bonus without me having to roll and once per fight I can stack a bonus on top of that that for everyone that's higher than Bodyguard and Saving Shield combined). And still my slayer is nothing like the defender a PHB fighter is.Seriously? The 2e fighter rocked. Weapon Specialisation kicked ass and took names and when the fighter felt as if it was really falling behind you got an army.D&D next needs a vision. A lot is going to fall into place when that happens.Indeed. About the only thing it isn't good at was archery or healing. It also has the fewest skills of any class. (And fighters, contrary to some implications in this thread, can use a bow. But decidedly as a backup weapon).Or if we want to avoid metagame power (some people really hate it), take the Gygaxian approach. Give them an army.More strikery, yes. Ranged? I'm calling Oberoni fallacy here I'm afraid (unless you're being a Slayer in which case your ranged capabilities are lethal.</blockquote>

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