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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6068583" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I'm assuming you're referring to immunity here because it is just flat out not as effective against mind flayers as it is against ogres.&nbsp; Your standard ogre has about 20 Will defense while your standard mind flayer has about 33.&nbsp; That's a vast chasm of difference.&nbsp; If we regress them to the exact same level (to reduce the level advancement noise in the equation), then you're still talking about a 4-5 point difference in defense (which is huge).&nbsp; I assume you're talking immunity though so it is likely moot.Regardless, there was absolutely zero chance for this thread to go anywhere productively and just serves to further show the immense divide in creative agendas and design expectations of the respective D&amp;D camps.&nbsp; I would cringe as a designer of 5e if I read these sorts of threads.&nbsp; Appeasing one side requires embedding metagame tools in the system (or at least providing them) while appeasing the other requires denouncing them as heresy and burning the witches who they feel turned D&amp;D into a newt.&nbsp; Yeah.&nbsp; Good luck with that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6068583, member: 6696971"] I'm assuming you're referring to immunity here because it is just flat out not as effective against mind flayers as it is against ogres. Your standard ogre has about 20 Will defense while your standard mind flayer has about 33. That's a vast chasm of difference. If we regress them to the exact same level (to reduce the level advancement noise in the equation), then you're still talking about a 4-5 point difference in defense (which is huge). I assume you're talking immunity though so it is likely moot. Regardless, there was absolutely zero chance for this thread to go anywhere productively and just serves to further show the immense divide in creative agendas and design expectations of the respective D&D camps. I would cringe as a designer of 5e if I read these sorts of threads. Appeasing one side requires embedding metagame tools in the system (or at least providing them) while appeasing the other requires denouncing them as heresy and burning the witches who they feel turned D&D into a newt. Yeah. Good luck with that. [/QUOTE]

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