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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6069362" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I do agree that Dexterity (coordination) would definitely be involved here.&nbsp; I also definitely agree that bogus projection of intent would be involved here.&nbsp; However, a few questions remain for me:1)&nbsp; Bogus projection of intent on an intimate, drawn-out social scale (a card game, a parlay, a duplicitous action like a double cross, maintaining the veneer of an undercover agent, etc) should definitely fall under the purview of Charisma.&nbsp; There are micro, sensory cues that are being manipulated (facial expressions, extremely subtle postures, mood subterfuge, voice inflection/cadence/tone) and are either empathically read or obtusely ignored/undiscovered.&nbsp; That is definitely Charisma.&nbsp; But what of the instantaneous, non-intimate interchange on the athletic field where people are moving at high speeds, information is conveyed/parsed/processed and decisions are made in micro-seconds (at an unconscious level).&nbsp; Are these athletic interchanges in the same vein as the former; Charisma vs Will?&nbsp; Flick of the Wrist in 3.x was modeled off of Thievery (and therefore Dexterity, hand-speed, coordination in legerdemain etc).&nbsp; I always found that considerably better.&nbsp; One of my PCs had that feat but didn't take combat feint (normal feint was unusable as it was an action economy nightmare).&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; The term &quot;suddeness&quot; is used to describe athletic explosiveness (burst); The ability to leap explosively multiple times, stop and cut on a dime and switch field at full speed and get back to full speed immediately, the quick release of a football/shot (rather than an elongated motion which telegraphs), the ability to get to top speed from a standstill almost immediately.&nbsp; If we could have the granularity, these things would best be modeled by a combination of Strength and Dexterity.&nbsp; However, if we have to use just one (as we tend to have to do in D&amp;D), which ability score would you choose?&nbsp; Should that choice interact with the above scenarios at all?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6069362, member: 6696971"] I do agree that Dexterity (coordination) would definitely be involved here. I also definitely agree that bogus projection of intent would be involved here. However, a few questions remain for me: 1) Bogus projection of intent on an intimate, drawn-out social scale (a card game, a parlay, a duplicitous action like a double cross, maintaining the veneer of an undercover agent, etc) should definitely fall under the purview of Charisma. There are micro, sensory cues that are being manipulated (facial expressions, extremely subtle postures, mood subterfuge, voice inflection/cadence/tone) and are either empathically read or obtusely ignored/undiscovered. That is definitely Charisma. But what of the instantaneous, non-intimate interchange on the athletic field where people are moving at high speeds, information is conveyed/parsed/processed and decisions are made in micro-seconds (at an unconscious level). [I][B]Are these athletic interchanges in the same vein as the former; Charisma vs Will?[/B][/I] Flick of the Wrist in 3.x was modeled off of Thievery (and therefore Dexterity, hand-speed, coordination in legerdemain etc). I always found that considerably better. One of my PCs had that feat but didn't take combat feint (normal feint was unusable as it was an action economy nightmare). 2) The term "suddeness" is used to describe athletic explosiveness (burst); The ability to leap explosively multiple times, stop and cut on a dime and switch field at full speed and get back to full speed immediately, the quick release of a football/shot (rather than an elongated motion which telegraphs), the ability to get to top speed from a standstill almost immediately. If we could have the granularity, these things would best be modeled by a combination of Strength and Dexterity. [I][B]However, if we have to use just one (as we tend to have to do in D&D), which ability score would you choose? Should that choice interact with the above scenarios at all?[/B][/I] [/QUOTE]

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