Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6069768" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Therein lies the problem.  Its the same issue with "Defending" in 3.x/PF and all of the line of feats that support it (Step Up, Following Step, Step Up and Strike, Stand Still, Pin Down, etc) and the Repositioning maneuver/feat.  The Action Economy in that system for martial characters is entirely predicated upon Full Attack Actions.  There is virtually never (except in the most absolutely extreme of corner cases...less than 1 in a 100 rounds of combat) a scenario where eschewing your Full Attack Routine for a minor rider is not tactically detrimental (forget about it being beneficial).  Anytime after you have 2 attacks, you want to be full attacking to deliver the best bang for your buck in the action economy game.  This is because riders typically (i) are not automatic (ii) the required secondary contest comes with very poor math disfavoring you (iii), may provoke an AoO (pending feat investment), (iv) and, if that's not enough, will cost you your damage potential (unless you have roughly 2-3 feats invested).This, of course, is why the controlling portion of Defending in 3.x/PF is pretty well moot and dictated by the Action Economy of the system.  Engage in melee; anything that isn't within a 5 ft step is fine because any creature would be absolutely foolish to waste its multi-attack routine (and possible riders that automatically come from them...monsters do get fun thematic things - Rend, Swallow Whole, etc) on a move action to chase someone down.  It will destroy its threat/damage potential in the limited lifespan that it possesses (2-3 rounds, at most).  Of course, you can't dictate target acquisition in melee so once you're in melee, you're pretty well just trying to mitigate and heal damage as no one is moving until one of you is dead.  That is, of course, why Combat Patrol and Reach/Trip Builds are the only real functional ways to Defend in 3.x/PF; improved reach provides intercept capabilities when you aren't in melee already, you crush their action economy by intercepting/tripping, and basically dictate target acquisition (for one round at least...after that its moot).Now.  If the riders were swift actions or free actions or automatic...and needed no secondary contest (thus seriously hurting the chance to be successful)...and didn't naturally provoke AoOs...and didn't hurt your damage...and the Full Round Action was done away with and Full Attack routines were built into Standard Actions...   Well, then we might have more tactical and thematic diversification to combat.  But I don't think a system out there would/could do that?  Would it?</blockquote>

Verification