Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 6070312" data-attributes="member: 6668292">That depends on what your definition of "is" is. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That still seems like sidestepping the question. It sounds like you think it can be done. You just haven't been satisfied yet.That can come in different forms. Situational powers, expertise dice, or encounter powers that satisfy most people (probably a moving goal, but something fatigued-based?).But, I do agree with you. Fighters (and fight-based characters in general) need to be able to do that stuff. In my RPG (goes to level 20), by level 5 a physically fighting-based character can, while attacking for full damage:[sblock]Preface on levels in the game world: level 4 = average settled adult; level 8 = a very experienced or very well-trained adult; level 12 = powerful, very well respected or feared, and capable of overcoming nearly all complications that arise in their field; level 16 = a heroic, infamous, or an exceptionally powerful being.By level 5:1) knock enemies back (save to negate)2) cause bleeding over hours (save to negate)3) reposition enemies your size or less (save to negate)4) gain a second attack against any target (iterative attacks cap at 2 attacks, like Trailblazer) (no save)5) deafen an opponent for 1 round (save to negate)6) knock an opponent down (save to negate)7) deal extra damage (no save)8) gain an extra 5 ft. step (no save)9) cause the opponent to be shaken (save to negate)10) cause an opponent to be entangled until an standard action is spent to fix it (save to negate)11) cause the opponent to be staggered (save to negate)12) deal 1 attribute damage to Str, Dex, Con, or Int (-1 on all checks involved with that attribute, takes a day to go away) (save to negate)13) attack multiple foes near himself (no save)By level 17, he can also:1) cause bleeding over minutes (save to negate) (level 11)2) deal more damage (no save) (level 11)3) reposition enemies up to six sizes above you (save to negate)4) blind enemies (save to negate) (level 11)5) drop enemies to -1 HP and dying (save to negate) (level 15)6) kill the opponent (save to negate)6) take four extra 5 ft. steps (no save) (level 15)7) cause the opponent to be nauseated (save to negate) (level 11)8) cause the opponent to be dazed for 1 round (save to negate) (level 9)9) cause the opponent to be stunned for 1 round (save to negate) (level 13)10) cause the opponent to be fatigued until 8 hours of rest (save to negate) (level 7)11) cause the opponent to be exhausted until 1 hour of rest (then fatigued until 8) (save to negate) (level 11)12) cause the opponent to be flat-footed for 1 round (level 11) (save to negate)13) deal 8 attribute damage to Str, Dex, Con, or Int (each day removes 1 attribute damage) (save to negate) (level 15)[/sblock]And, that's just by having Base Attack. From here, you can enter one of nine different stances (you need to have a 16 in an attribute and a single feat to qualify for each of them), use any maneuver from a stance you qualify for (about ten maneuvers per stance, and you only need to qualify for the stance, not be in it), grab feats for combat, use the Leadership, Martial Prowess, and Tactics skills to give combat bonuses, and grab status effects, miscellaneous damage, etc. And that's just combat.Essentially, that's not counting "class abilities" that might do these things as well, or add more damage, or give you more breadth, or whatever. Is my method different from others? Sure. Are my ideal numbers different? Probably. Is this too many options to have just lying around? For a lot of people, yeah. But is my sentiment "the Fighter needs to be good, including status effects"? Definitely. My basic, uncolored warrior can do almost everything you listed -give him a couple special abilities and he can do all of it except Weakened (though the attribute damage can make enemies deal less damage); just grab a checked status effect, and the Bodyguard / Guardian / Greater Guardian feats. And he'll literally redirect attacks to him, with those feats, as he steps in the way.I get the want for awesome Fighters. I do. I tried to make people that want to be good at combat be good at combat. So, yeah. I get it, man. I want Fighters to rock, too. I hear "people want Fighters to suck so magic will rule" thrown out a couple times per conversation, and I just let those go. They do apply to some very small amount of posters, but just because I don't like Encounter or Daily powers, it doesn't mean I want weak Fighters, too. And I'm willing to bet that mine have more options than yours do (good in my eyes; bad in Neonchameleon's eyes, and I understand why).Anyways, let's just say that I agree with your goal. I got all of those options listed on one page, for my warriors. I think there might be some middle ground, too (encounters explicitly tied to fatigue, with maneuvers in a shared fatigue pool). But we won't know unless they test them. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />My first, honest question is "if the fire is hanging around, shouldn't it be more at-will damage, not encounter?" I ask honestly. The fire is going to stay there, I assume, so that'd be what I think it'd be. I don't play 4e, but I've read page 42. It's cool. If the fire is hanging around, I thought it would deal at-will level damage, wouldn't it?Isn't this the part where it's no longer player fiat? You have to rely on the DM to "say yes". What happens if he says no? Or, what if he says yes, but it's at-will, rather than encounter-level? This seems like there is rules support, but it's not quite strong enough to allow the player to declare what he's doing, and have it happen by his fiat. I think page 42 is cool. I'm glad they included it. It's useful for the type of game I see 4e to be. However, you don't have a "player fiat" ability here unless you, as DM, let the player decide all the variables. He'd have to pick the damage level, secondary effects, etc. Otherwise, this is "mother may I" but with more support. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Did you have to give the okay for this abilities to work? If so, we're getting further from the "player fiat" that Obryn was talking about. Does 4e say that you can make a prayer to get combat advantage against a wight? If not, this is a more defined "mother may I" situation than what Manbearcat described, above. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

Verification