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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6070908" data-attributes="member: 6696971">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?6668292-JamesonCourage" target="_blank">JamesonCourage</a> I understand your earnest, sincere effort in this exchange, but I think you aren't groking it because, to be honest, I don't think you're familiar enough with the ruleset to understand what happens at a mechanical level here.&nbsp; For a player to be 10 feet away from a hazard or terrain featuring fire damage (that isn't directly behind the enemy) and say &quot;I want to force my enemy through blade flurries and footwork into that hazard/terrain feature&quot;, he's saying &quot;I am using a Fire, Martial, Weapon Keyword, Standard Action, Melee Range, Dex vs Ref Attack, Slide 2 rider effect&quot;.&nbsp; When a player says &quot;I want the boiling stewpot to burn him&quot; he's saying &quot;This attack will do ongoing fire damage&quot;.&nbsp; When a player says I want to use my 7th level encounter power to achieve this improve limited effect damage expression, he is saying &quot;I want the Ongoing Fire Damage to be 5 (Save Ends) and it will be medium damage expression&quot;.&nbsp; Instead of having a pre-built shelving unit (a stock level 7 encounter power), its going to Ikea and buying all the pieces that precisely fit together, with instructions, and building the shelving unit yourself.&nbsp; Just because you build it yourself, using explicit instructions and tongue and groove or snap-lock or dowel/bolt and stock Allen's Wrench doesn't make it a different unit than if it was pre-built for you.&nbsp; If anything, perhaps it makes it more &quot;yours&quot;...more &quot;fiat&quot; as you're assembling it yourself through your imagination and explicit guidelines + deconstructed pieces and the tool that comes in the box.The player was asking to do this precisely and there is no ambiguity involved:Level 7 Limited Use (Encounter) Improv ExploitEncounter - Fire, Martial, WeaponStandard Action - Melee 1Target:&nbsp; One adjacent enemy.Attack:&nbsp; Dex vs RefHit: 3d10 + 5 (+ 2d6 Sneak attack in this case as he had Combat Advantage) Fire Damage and slide the target 2 squares.Effect:&nbsp; 5 Ongoing Fire Damage (Save Ends).The target is also now in a hazard;&nbsp; a 1 square zone of difficult terrain.&nbsp; Any enemy that enters or starts its turn in the zone takes 5 Fire damage.I don't know how this could possibly be &quot;mother may I.&quot;&nbsp; Its codified.&nbsp; Its clear.&nbsp; Beyond the codification of improvised attacks, there are hundreds of level 7 encounter powers and limited use terrain effects for reference that if you studied their economy of power, you wouldn't even need improv rules.&nbsp; But, they don't expect you to have that level of a grasp of the economy of power of level 7 encounter powers and limited use effects so they provide you p42.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6070908, member: 6696971"] @[URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?6668292-JamesonCourage"][COLOR=#ffa500][B]JamesonCourage[/B][/COLOR][/URL] I understand your earnest, sincere effort in this exchange, but I think you aren't groking it because, to be honest, I don't think you're familiar enough with the ruleset to understand what happens at a mechanical level here. For a player to be 10 feet away from a hazard or terrain featuring fire damage (that isn't directly behind the enemy) and say "I want to force my enemy through blade flurries and footwork into that hazard/terrain feature", he's saying "I am using a Fire, Martial, Weapon Keyword, Standard Action, Melee Range, Dex vs Ref Attack, Slide 2 rider effect". When a player says "I want the boiling stewpot to burn him" he's saying "This attack will do ongoing fire damage". When a player says I want to use my 7th level encounter power to achieve this improve limited effect damage expression, he is saying "I want the Ongoing Fire Damage to be 5 (Save Ends) and it will be medium damage expression". Instead of having a pre-built shelving unit (a stock level 7 encounter power), its going to Ikea and buying all the pieces that precisely fit together, with instructions, and building the shelving unit yourself. Just because you build it yourself, using explicit instructions and tongue and groove or snap-lock or dowel/bolt and stock Allen's Wrench doesn't make it a different unit than if it was pre-built for you. If anything, perhaps it makes it more "yours"...more "fiat" as you're assembling it yourself through your imagination and explicit guidelines + deconstructed pieces and the tool that comes in the box. The player was asking to do this precisely and there is no ambiguity involved: [COLOR=#ffa500]Level 7 Limited Use (Encounter) Improv Exploit Encounter - Fire, Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee 1 Target: One adjacent enemy. Attack: Dex vs Ref Hit: 3d10 + 5 (+ 2d6 Sneak attack in this case as he had Combat Advantage) Fire Damage and slide the target 2 squares. Effect: 5 Ongoing Fire Damage (Save Ends).[/COLOR] The target is also now in a hazard; a 1 square zone of difficult terrain. Any enemy that enters or starts its turn in the zone takes 5 Fire damage. I don't know how this could possibly be "mother may I." Its codified. Its clear. Beyond the codification of improvised attacks, there are hundreds of level 7 encounter powers and limited use terrain effects for reference that if you studied their economy of power, you wouldn't even need improv rules. But, they don't expect you to have that level of a grasp of the economy of power of level 7 encounter powers and limited use effects so they provide you p42. [/QUOTE]

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