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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 2632104" data-attributes="member: 35678">First off, thank you Thia Halmades for starting this thread up, and for all of the responses thus far.Now, into the nitty-gritty > first off, lets look at ability scores, and how appropriate they are (and also, some refernces from Tolkien, since that is the sterio-typical half-orc; Thia, though you obviously have you own flavour for your campaign, i suggest we go for a straight up half-orc, and disregard campaign flavour for the moment).STR - probably the most obvious bonus. orcs are much stronger than humans (+4 being very appropriate) and thus hal-orcs should get +2 str. i thnk most are in agreement hereDEX - neither clumsy nore dexterous, half-orcs (and orcs) have no adjustments for dexCON - heres where it gets tricky. id personally say that orcs (and thus half-orcs) are very sturdy creatures. but how sturdy, and in what regard? id say give them a straight up con bonus, since just a specific ability bonus doesnt make sense. but how sturdy? well, id say they are more strong then sturdy, and thus since the orc gets +4 str, he should also gain +2 con. as for the half-orc, i would say give him +1 con. (IMO [and remeber, this is only my opinion, not the groups], i dont see why not; WotC seems to shun a "partial" bonus [ie one that doesnt give +1 to a stat mod, or +2 to a stat] but for half-races it would make sense, since they inherit half their heritage from each parent). Comments?now, into the mental abilities, where some debates have been started already . . .INT - there should definitively be a penalty in Int. id say both half orcs and orcs get -2 Int. they are simply a race designed for war (taken literally or not). they do need booksmarts to kill, they need a nice, serrated sword.WIS - Orcs in Middle-earth seem to have a slightly below average amount of common sense (remember that tower in which every last orc killed one another, ecept for one, whch sam got, right at the endof LOTR?) but not enough to kill off their entire race. id say, orc get -1 Wis, but half-orc have no adjustments. there seems to be no refernce to half-orcs behaving in a way in which we would be led to belive a penalty should lie in Wis.CHA - are orcs and half-orcs diplomats in middle-earth? No. Their idea of diplomacy is killing those that offend them, and then doing a jig over the flayed corpse. I'd go as far as to give orcs -4 to Cha. they simply are NOT very persuasive, etc. the half-orc? give em -2 chaas for other specifics:i think half-orcs should get +2 Intimidate and -2 Diplomacy, and have the option of using Str instead of cha for Intimidate checks (as per the varient barb rule from Sword and Fist [IIRC]). Note that overall, with -2 cha and -2 diplomacy, half-orcs have -3 to diplomacy. I think this makes sense, since half-orcs and orcs are never very "influential" etc. even with skill focus (diplomacy) half-orcs are only as persuasice as the average human, and then only passably. this makes complete sense, since theyd much rather kill than talk.also, half-orcs should have a +2 disguise bonus to appear human. this adds flavour, and makes sense from a Tolkien POV (the southerner was considered to be human for a long time, till the fledgeling fellowship set out and came to bree)orc blood should stay. Spatzimaus has already outlined what he does, and personally, i would very much so like it if WotC made a splatbook (at least) on how to truely incorperate blood-line-oriented stuff in campaigns more (other than using a ranger with FA).i dont think orcs should get darkvision, since they are okay with being outdoors, etc. In LOTR, true orcs have alot of problems with being outdoors, but the half-orcs didnt have any problems. Darkvision should only be given to exceptional creatures, or those that live underground. half-orcs are neither, but they should still have some of their orc heritage, which would increase their humans eyes a tad. thus, Low-light vision would be an appropriate stand-in.also, since orcs have such an unbridled hatred of elves and dwarves, they should haev +1 damage or attack (i forget the standard one > whether you give + too attack or damage). against Elves and Dwarves. IMC, for any race which gains a bonus against their arch-enemies, i give a damage bonus. why not an attack bonus? well, i think that theirfury should show in how hard they hit, not how accurate you are. but thast my opinion. feel free to discuss.also, i would say that fighter is the favoured class. i know this will start a debate, btu in Middle-earth, they were soldiers in Sarumons/Sarumans (sp? i am so tired right now . . .) army. Now, if one goes D&D standard, Orcs are savages. Thus the barbarian class would be appropriate for half-orc, seeing as how they would be raised under those conditions. IMO, if one goes Tolkien in their standards as i do) Fighter should be the favoured class. I gues it depends on your campaign, but either the barbarian or fighter would be appropriate (perhaps, if raised by orcs, barbarian is favoured; by humans, fighter is favoured).also, reduced scent would be moer appropriate than the full-fledged scent feat. too much for too little. (and reduced scent would only be appropriate from a non-tolkien POV)anyways, that is about all i have to say for now about this. summed up, heres how my version of the Tolkien-esqe Half-orc should look like:</blockquote>

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