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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 2634194" data-attributes="member: 35678">Well, since it is all just luck of the die when rolling ability scores, this shouldnt matter. Also, i said in my arguments that should they be sturdy? yes. As sturdy as they are strong? no. I dont think that giving them +1/2 HP, +1/2 fort save, etc will be breaking the race as a whole, and since you are as likely going to roll all even numbers compared to any other type, this isnt such a bad idea IMO. As since many arrange ability scores as desired, you example of what happens with + and - scores already occurs, just on a larger scale (+2 to a score, and not +1 as with my example).I am well aware that there are a variety of orcish sub-races in Middle-earth. Goblins (a name which is [as mentioned] interchangable with "orc") are from Moria and surrounding areas, Uruk-Hai from Mordor (and at the time of the War of the Ring, from Isenguard), Orcs from the Misty Mountains (and other places) etc. Half-breeds include half-orcs (mainly from human/uruk-hai stock) and goblin-men (which obviously come froms goblin stock). Unfortunately, since the names "goblin" and "orc" are interchangable, we cannot always grasp exactly which which is which; and can become confused by it. My outline of orcish races and sub-races from Middle-earth is rudimentary at best, but we can draw some ideas of "which which is which."IMC, although influenced heavily by tolkien, does have its own flair and flavour. My half-orc as is is basically a conglomeration of much of the Middle-earths assmuptions for half-orcs and their natures, and thus (admitantly) combines some conflicting themes. A goblin-man would likely live underground in Moria, and thus have darkvision and would likely have a class like ranger (maybe fighter or rogue) as favoured class. A half-orc from human/uru-hai stock would have low-light vision, since neither parents live underground, but the uruk-hai's orcish blood would still improve the sight of its children, and rogue or fighter would be favoured class (this being a players choice > the Southerner was a rogueish fellow, but other half-orcs were obviously trained soldiers). A half-orc from orcish stock (savages in the mountain passes, etc) would probably have darkvision, but he may not, and his favoured class would probably be barbarian. your comments have made me re-look at what i am doing with the half-orc seriously, and some re-vision is necessary IMO. Tolkiens work (love it or hate it) created most of the common-day medeval fantasy themes and assumptions that many take for granted. That said, the basic "big dumb savage" is one of a few facets which the orcish races posses. Othes are a warrior-race and rogue-ish race (depending on breed).-------one last thing. In D&D, there are bugbears, hob-goblins, goblins and orcs, but these races all have their own "made-up" (as in 'D&D made-up" not "Tolkien made-up") niches that they fill. Infact, hob-goblin, bugbear and goblin all mean the same thing (arguably, kobold does as well) from european folklore; it was TRS and WotC which gave them their D&D incarnations. But, since Tolkien was originator of present-day fantasy, i would argue that Lotr and the hobbit are two books that would be indispenable in defing what is an orc and what is a goblin.</blockquote>

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