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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Fixing the Half Orc ('cause they're broken)
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<blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 2636352" data-attributes="member: 35678"><p>the only reason "half bonuses" dont work (ie +1 or +3 to a stat) is because the D&D system does not support them. for example, +13 in str <em>technically</em> gives you +1.5 to hit, but the ruels as they are do not support this. the only example i can give where this <strong>is</strong> applicable in even the most obscure of ways is in Unearthed Arcana, where the saves and BAB from multiclassing are talked about, and you can give the partial bonuses from each to be at the same level (read: even playing ground) as single class characters. Other than that, WotC has not given us anything to deal with those "useless" odd numbers in ability scores.</p><p></p><p>Thank you to those who have shown support in my position on +1/-1 ability scores. These arent game breaking, and as Aus_Snow said, "first level isnt everything." While it is a truth that giving +2/-2 etc to an ability score <em>will</em> give it a definite modifier, what you roll (or point buy) is still affected. The fact is, in D&D, <strong>all</strong> ability scores are equally important. Yes, even Charisma. The bad thing is, most of these are not well role-played, and thus creates a problem.</p><p></p><p>Also, a half-orc sorcerer or wizard is still plausible, even with -2 for each score. All you need is a 19 in either to cast 9th level spells, and since the maximum you could still get 16 (at level one), this is very likely that you will get 9th level spells by 17th level (IIRC). Powergamers argue otherwise, but a cloak of charisma can go a <em>loooooonnng</em> way.</p><p></p><p>Also, as i stated before, we shouldn't be shoe-horned into using the TSR's and WotC's races if we want to use Middle-earth races (and since the orc is based off of this, i dont see why we couldn't add in more flavour). Sure, they could work in a pinch, but the fact that the orc as is has some design flaws (from a design POV (as in they are under-powered, but if we referred to a Tolkien POV, then also from flavour and mechanics POV (as in they are now warped from the original creatures).</p><p></p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> clever, but just because they are low-level fodder doesnt mean that we cant strive to make them better and more proper mechanics-wise. That is the purpose of this thread, isnt it??</p><p></p><p>PS, thank you felix for defining a few more of the races of orc in middle-earth. i havent bothered to look through my notes (much) and books as of late; but i dont aggree with all of your comparisons (ie, Misty Mountain orcs being related to Kobolds; this is harly the case, except for the clever traps, etc; they are more like the standard orc in nature). Also, in case you (and others) missed the point, I was basically stating that orcs as well as half-orcs needed to be re-designed. You cant just leave out one thing while changing the other (referring to half-orcs and orcs).</p><p></p><p>lets see what other comments this and other posts bring, shall we . . . .</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nyaricus, post: 2636352, member: 35678"] the only reason "half bonuses" dont work (ie +1 or +3 to a stat) is because the D&D system does not support them. for example, +13 in str [i]technically[/i] gives you +1.5 to hit, but the ruels as they are do not support this. the only example i can give where this [b]is[/b] applicable in even the most obscure of ways is in Unearthed Arcana, where the saves and BAB from multiclassing are talked about, and you can give the partial bonuses from each to be at the same level (read: even playing ground) as single class characters. Other than that, WotC has not given us anything to deal with those "useless" odd numbers in ability scores. Thank you to those who have shown support in my position on +1/-1 ability scores. These arent game breaking, and as Aus_Snow said, "first level isnt everything." While it is a truth that giving +2/-2 etc to an ability score [i]will[/i] give it a definite modifier, what you roll (or point buy) is still affected. The fact is, in D&D, [b]all[/b] ability scores are equally important. Yes, even Charisma. The bad thing is, most of these are not well role-played, and thus creates a problem. Also, a half-orc sorcerer or wizard is still plausible, even with -2 for each score. All you need is a 19 in either to cast 9th level spells, and since the maximum you could still get 16 (at level one), this is very likely that you will get 9th level spells by 17th level (IIRC). Powergamers argue otherwise, but a cloak of charisma can go a [i]loooooonnng[/i] way. Also, as i stated before, we shouldn't be shoe-horned into using the TSR's and WotC's races if we want to use Middle-earth races (and since the orc is based off of this, i dont see why we couldn't add in more flavour). Sure, they could work in a pinch, but the fact that the orc as is has some design flaws (from a design POV (as in they are under-powered, but if we referred to a Tolkien POV, then also from flavour and mechanics POV (as in they are now warped from the original creatures). :D clever, but just because they are low-level fodder doesnt mean that we cant strive to make them better and more proper mechanics-wise. That is the purpose of this thread, isnt it?? PS, thank you felix for defining a few more of the races of orc in middle-earth. i havent bothered to look through my notes (much) and books as of late; but i dont aggree with all of your comparisons (ie, Misty Mountain orcs being related to Kobolds; this is harly the case, except for the clever traps, etc; they are more like the standard orc in nature). Also, in case you (and others) missed the point, I was basically stating that orcs as well as half-orcs needed to be re-designed. You cant just leave out one thing while changing the other (referring to half-orcs and orcs). lets see what other comments this and other posts bring, shall we . . . . [/QUOTE]
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Fixing the Half Orc ('cause they're broken)
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