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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 2649344" data-attributes="member: 35678">That's okay, i am equally frustrated with the way ths post has gotten basically off topic. As said before, we should all just agree to disagree, and go with even-numbered stat mods (-2/+2), per the core-rules standard.For concept, i don't think We are really doing these guys justice.  Lets go back to some of my original arguments:Strength > obviously, this will be the main boon for the half-orc. +2 will suffice.Dexterity > Nothing really to say here; half-orcs can be as clumsy or swift as either of their parents. No mods hereConstitution > I would say that half-orcs (and orcs) are a bit tougher than their human side. If it werent for the fact that dwarves deserve the bonus to Con much more than orcs, i would definitively give them a bonus. Perhaps what could be worked out is giving the half-orcs the Toughness feat for free?? Thoughts?Intelligence > Half-orcs (and orcs) are stupid. Their idea of a battle plan is whipping themselves into a rage and charging their foes with blades drawn at full tilt. -2 Int makes sense.Wisdom > Half-orcs have an average (by human standards) of common sense. No penalties or bonuses here. Charisma > I personally would say that -2 would make complete sense. Intimidate is basicalyl the only cha-based skill check that half-orcs (a standard one, anyways) would be using, and with the orcs special ability to use his sheer physical stature to quell the weak-willed, this will even out. Half-orcs and orcs also are not usually Clerics (for turning/rebuking) or Sorcerers (for spellcasting), so this won't affect them there.  But i know there are many here who would say "don't nerf the half-orcs spellcasting completely."  So, using an idea which a few have proposed (and i actually made up IMC before knowing that others used it here) we should penalize the half-orc in that All charisma-based skill checks take a -2 penalty. This includes intimidate, but the Half-orc may substitue his str mod for his cha mod for those checks only.  Thoughts??For specifics on Half-orc special abilities, heres where i stand:Scent: it is quite powerful. Previously, i supported the idea of using limited scent (half-range etc) instead of scent, but i (and a few others who suported this) were basically ignored. I wouldn't actaully allow it at all if it were my way. I don't think that half-orcs would be good sniffers. It doesn't fit in with any known literature I know of and/or have read. And it just seems a bit too powerful.Endurance: its not over-powered, but just not very good for flavour. If they were a plains folk (had to run around great expases alot) or lived high in the mountains (where your lungs would have to adapt to different factors) i could see how this would work. But since Orcs and half-orcs generaly seem to be living in shallow cave systems of in the ruins of dwarven citadels, i don't think they'd be getting the "training" (as it is) for the endurance feat.Toughness: I think this would make sense. I think a half-orc would be a lot tougher than a standard human, and the toughness could reflect this. Another alterative to this would be:Natural Armour bonus: only +1, but this could/would also reflect the fact that half-orcs are tougher than the standard human.Darkvision/low-light vision: I would say that low-light vision would be the most appropriate ability here, but since many would say otherwise (presumably) I say for simplicities sake we go with Darkvision.Give them Orc and Human Blood. they are treated as either race in the case of determining racial-specific effects.Also, give them Racial Weapon Profs. The half-orc considers the orc double-axe a martial weapon.Strong-armed Intimidate: half-orcs use their Str mod instead of their Cha mod for Intimidate checks.so, heres the finished product:So, what do you all think??</blockquote>

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