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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5644842" data-attributes="member: 35909">BAB +6 is required for the Greater maneuvers, the Improved don't have a BAB requirement, iirc (or if they do, it's only because they require Power Attack or Expertise, which you need BAB +1 for).&nbsp; Just wanted to point out it wasn't some exception or houserule.&nbsp; They need by RAW BAB +6 to get the greater maneuvers, even if they have all the pre-reqs for the Improved feat.&nbsp; I'll be wary of new stuff, but up through Ultimate Combat it seems to hold as a fine model, at least from what I've seen so far.Few people would consider a wizard with an 8 wisdom to have a &quot;good&quot; will save.&nbsp; Maybe an &quot;alright&quot; will save, but definitely not great.&nbsp; And while Monk has 3 good saves, Rangers, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Bards all don't lag so far behind with 2 good saves.&nbsp; And every single one of those classes has spellcasting.&nbsp; Some of them have higher HD and BAB, too.&nbsp; How can MAD be avoided without making something a dump stat?&nbsp; Current monk needs good dex and con, high wis and str, and at least 10 in int.&nbsp; That's too MAD.Wholeness of Body was godawful before.&nbsp; 2 ki and a standard for healing equal to HD.&nbsp; Even now I'm not sure it's worth the action and ki cost until level 15, but I guess when you really need it, it's there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5644842, member: 35909"] BAB +6 is required for the Greater maneuvers, the Improved don't have a BAB requirement, iirc (or if they do, it's only because they require Power Attack or Expertise, which you need BAB +1 for). Just wanted to point out it wasn't some exception or houserule. They need by RAW BAB +6 to get the greater maneuvers, even if they have all the pre-reqs for the Improved feat. I'll be wary of new stuff, but up through Ultimate Combat it seems to hold as a fine model, at least from what I've seen so far. Few people would consider a wizard with an 8 wisdom to have a "good" will save. Maybe an "alright" will save, but definitely not great. And while Monk has 3 good saves, Rangers, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Bards all don't lag so far behind with 2 good saves. And every single one of those classes has spellcasting. Some of them have higher HD and BAB, too. How can MAD be avoided without making something a dump stat? Current monk needs good dex and con, high wis and str, and at least 10 in int. That's too MAD. Wholeness of Body was godawful before. 2 ki and a standard for healing equal to HD. Even now I'm not sure it's worth the action and ki cost until level 15, but I guess when you [i]really[/i] need it, it's there. [/QUOTE]

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