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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Fixing the Monk Class
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5690937" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Sorry it took so long, that's a lot of text! Here are my thoughts reading through so far:</p><p>[sblock]Bonus feats: I assume the 6th level ones are available at 5? If using for PF, I’d just use their bonus feat progression, they gave more bonus feats to a lot of classes.</p><p></p><p>Insightful Defense: No +1 per X monk levels? Worse than original, and monk AC is terrible. Can the monk use a shield with this? “Unarmored” is vague.</p><p></p><p>Weapon Skill: Just give monks full BAB. I fought it for a long time, but Ive come to realize it’s necessary.</p><p></p><p>Monk Talents</p><p>Abundant Step: I like PF’s ability to use it more than once/day, once/day is too limiting. PF also made it a move action.</p><p>Charm Touch/Strike(?): Not bad, I’d just make it another use of Stunning Fist and otherwise no limits to how many can be charmed or times/day.</p><p>Cobra Fang: See above.</p><p>Damage Reduction: Just so I’m clear, it’s 1 +1/5 levels, yes? So DR 5 at level 20?</p><p>Defensive Stance: I don’t like these sorts of abilities, seldom seems practical in the game. At least include as part of this later level benefits of “can take 5 ft steps” and “not winded when it’s over” if you don’t want to include them right away.</p><p>Devotion: Three mid/high level class features for full Paladin casting from a very limited list seems too expensive to me.</p><p>Diamond Body: You can make this available sooner, Druids get poison immunity at 8, and monk’s the class that needs help.</p><p>Diamond Soul: Fine. </p><p>Dragon Punch: Really weak, I’d never take this.</p><p>Elemental Affinity: See Dragon Punch.</p><p>Elemental Immunity: Not bad, but too costly, IMO.</p><p>Elemental Temperance: Too costly, IMO. You know, all three of these would probably be fine if you could choose each morning which energy type to apply it to instead of being stuck forever.</p><p>Empty Body: Fine.</p><p>Essence of the Wind: I’d rather just use a magic item when needed, but this is alright I guess.</p><p>Evasion: Wait, now you’re saying base save. Are all of these requirements base saves or not? I assumed so, until you started differentiating.</p><p>Focus Ki: I’m confused, does it benefit all rolls with a chosen skill or save, or just one roll? Can the increased BAB give you another attack?</p><p>Fast Movement: Wait…you can’t get both this and Evasion at 3rd level even though original monk has them by then. So…your variant is weaker than normal monk?!</p><p>Flow Like Water: Does this require an action to activate? If not, it’s alright, if you do, it sucks.</p><p>Flurry of Blows: …Your al la carte system does mean your monks end up with less class features, doesn’t it?[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>I kinda stopped there. I just don't understand why you need to take things away from the monk. If it was really necessary for awesome, I suppose, but it looks like those are mostly one/day or one/day/5 monk levels low level spell effects... It look like you broke things up too much and didn't give the monk enough talents to make up for it. It's nice to have more options on what do do with your monk, but you also have to fix its core problems first. Thanks for your input, but I don't agree with your houserules.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5690937, member: 35909"] Sorry it took so long, that's a lot of text! Here are my thoughts reading through so far: [sblock]Bonus feats: I assume the 6th level ones are available at 5? If using for PF, I’d just use their bonus feat progression, they gave more bonus feats to a lot of classes. Insightful Defense: No +1 per X monk levels? Worse than original, and monk AC is terrible. Can the monk use a shield with this? “Unarmored” is vague. Weapon Skill: Just give monks full BAB. I fought it for a long time, but Ive come to realize it’s necessary. Monk Talents Abundant Step: I like PF’s ability to use it more than once/day, once/day is too limiting. PF also made it a move action. Charm Touch/Strike(?): Not bad, I’d just make it another use of Stunning Fist and otherwise no limits to how many can be charmed or times/day. Cobra Fang: See above. Damage Reduction: Just so I’m clear, it’s 1 +1/5 levels, yes? So DR 5 at level 20? Defensive Stance: I don’t like these sorts of abilities, seldom seems practical in the game. At least include as part of this later level benefits of “can take 5 ft steps” and “not winded when it’s over” if you don’t want to include them right away. Devotion: Three mid/high level class features for full Paladin casting from a very limited list seems too expensive to me. Diamond Body: You can make this available sooner, Druids get poison immunity at 8, and monk’s the class that needs help. Diamond Soul: Fine. Dragon Punch: Really weak, I’d never take this. Elemental Affinity: See Dragon Punch. Elemental Immunity: Not bad, but too costly, IMO. Elemental Temperance: Too costly, IMO. You know, all three of these would probably be fine if you could choose each morning which energy type to apply it to instead of being stuck forever. Empty Body: Fine. Essence of the Wind: I’d rather just use a magic item when needed, but this is alright I guess. Evasion: Wait, now you’re saying base save. Are all of these requirements base saves or not? I assumed so, until you started differentiating. Focus Ki: I’m confused, does it benefit all rolls with a chosen skill or save, or just one roll? Can the increased BAB give you another attack? Fast Movement: Wait…you can’t get both this and Evasion at 3rd level even though original monk has them by then. So…your variant is weaker than normal monk?! Flow Like Water: Does this require an action to activate? If not, it’s alright, if you do, it sucks. Flurry of Blows: …Your al la carte system does mean your monks end up with less class features, doesn’t it?[/sblock] I kinda stopped there. I just don't understand why you need to take things away from the monk. If it was really necessary for awesome, I suppose, but it looks like those are mostly one/day or one/day/5 monk levels low level spell effects... It look like you broke things up too much and didn't give the monk enough talents to make up for it. It's nice to have more options on what do do with your monk, but you also have to fix its core problems first. Thanks for your input, but I don't agree with your houserules. [/QUOTE]
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