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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 9838307" data-attributes="member: 59057">Level 1. Strength based character or monk. A monk is especially good at that, sonce they can dodge as an action and then use unarmed strike to initate a grapple. But a heavy armor user is not bad either. A fighter can easily have 16 AC and a long sword in one hand and nithing in the other. And if they have interception or a defense fighting style, they can do great work. If the have unarmed fighting style, they can even go shield + no hand. But long sword + defense fighting style is comparable. Maybe even better because of sap. That is some anecdotical evidence. But yeah, sometimes good tactics are cursed. We have a sorcerer that always misses with true strike. And our frighter that is build for grapple was just unlucky more often than not. I think one point is that the grapple feat (going by the wording) was designed with the playtest grapple rules in mind:You hit and then chose the option. You hit, you use both options: auto hit and auto grapple. The switch to saving throw came afterwards and to be honest, the literal reading of the grappler feat makes no sense:If you hit you use both damage and grab option, but the official rules have you chose before you hit. Yeh that happens. Damage spells are underrated by optimizers. I say a good old fireball always does half damage. Against 3 targets that is great. A level 3 command might just completely miss at a crucial moment. And 12 damage on a failed save are still about as much as an average fighter attack.Exactly.I think the trick is being a bit flexible. Against a full hp tough target, trying to command or disable is a good idea, because you have several tries to make it stick. Against a half dead squishier target, just deal damage and hope the single target damage dealers clean up the rest.</blockquote>

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