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<blockquote data-quote="timbannock" data-source="post: 4791747" data-attributes="member: 17913">As I recall, Tumble vs. DC of 10+BAB (20+BAB to tumble through an enemy's square) was pretty common.The question, though, is who does this really effect, and how?&nbsp; A lot of solid arguments exist for the Tumble check being rather uncommon for characters other than Rogues and Monks, so many feel that it's sort of a &quot;class feature&quot; of those classes to get an &quot;avoid AoO for free&quot; card.&nbsp; Others think that Tumbling is cheesy, and thus they want to limit its usefulness (i.e. not get rid of it, but make it potentially tougher, like you're proposing).Remember though that attack rolls can escalate really fast as you level up, and it's not in any way on an even level with skill increases.&nbsp; I'm not a math guy, so you'll want to consult others, but I could see Tumble vs. attack roll becoming a nasty arms race.&nbsp; If the math stacks too heavily against Tumble, then you've just made the skill lose one of it's primary benefits.&nbsp; If the math stacks in favor of Tumble, then it's just that much more important for the Rogues and Monks in your game to dump Skill Focus and all of their skill points on it, in which case the same results that you are trying to mitigate still exist.Also important: will you and your players remember the house rule?&nbsp; My players didn't, so we just said &quot;to hell with it&quot; and ran it per RAW.&nbsp; Honestly, the game did not suffer for it.&nbsp; YMMV</blockquote>

[QUOTE="timbannock, post: 4791747, member: 17913"] As I recall, Tumble vs. DC of 10+BAB (20+BAB to tumble through an enemy's square) was pretty common. The question, though, is who does this really effect, and how? A lot of solid arguments exist for the Tumble check being rather uncommon for characters other than Rogues and Monks, so many feel that it's sort of a "class feature" of those classes to get an "avoid AoO for free" card. Others think that Tumbling is cheesy, and thus they want to limit its usefulness (i.e. not get rid of it, but make it potentially tougher, like you're proposing). Remember though that attack rolls can escalate really fast as you level up, and it's not in any way on an even level with skill increases. I'm not a math guy, so you'll want to consult others, but I could see Tumble vs. attack roll becoming a nasty arms race. If the math stacks too heavily against Tumble, then you've just made the skill lose one of it's primary benefits. If the math stacks in favor of Tumble, then it's just that much more important for the Rogues and Monks in your game to dump Skill Focus and all of their skill points on it, in which case the same results that you are trying to mitigate still exist. Also important: will you and your players remember the house rule? My players didn't, so we just said "to hell with it" and ran it per RAW. Honestly, the game did not suffer for it. YMMV [/QUOTE]

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