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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9088435" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I guess then what I would say is, while this has potential, it's going to look even more radically different than the Story Now revolution looked compared to the games of its time. As in, I'm not sure it would be meaningfully comparable to D&amp;D at all anymore, whereas there's some pretty obvious parallels between PbtA and D&amp;D.I assume you already know of Microscope? That feels like it's at least reasonably close to what you're looking for in terms of &quot;setting tourism&quot; and all of the players &quot;establishing&quot; facts that then feed into future fact-establishing. It starts at a very high level and allows zooming in to almost any degree desired (which I believe is where the name comes from), so it can handle fact-establishment as big as literal continents and laws of physics and as small as specific descriptive elements of a single object of importance (e.g. an artifact.)But...well, in line with what I said earlier, I think there's a reason this hasn't (and perhaps won't) get the sea-change that Story Now got. Beyond the obvious problems of either time-travel issues (that is, being allowed to edit the past, with all the headaches that causes) or being &quot;locked in&quot; (not being able to edit the past, so it becomes a read-only block), there's a pretty simple question of...what's the point? With gamist stuff, the point is to play the game better, nice and straightforward. With &quot;Story Before&quot;/trad play, it's about reaching the climax of a well-crafted story--same point as watching a film or reading a book, hence the many comparisons to those mediums. With &quot;Story Now&quot; play, it's about being in the protagonist seat when each climax occurs. In all three cases, there's some kind of purpose or destination or other thing to metaphorically aim at. It isn't just the act of doing the thing; it's also that doing the thing gets you to somewhere or something.What, beyond the act of fact-establishing, does this &quot;get&quot; for the player(s)? An established setting? That seems like it just goes back to what you find so troublesome, that is, your feeling that (process) sim is in some sense seen as &quot;lesser&quot; than gaming-qua-gaming and gaming-for-story, because a setting alone is kind of pointless unless you then use it for something else.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9088435, member: 6790260"] I guess then what I would say is, while this has potential, it's going to look [I]even more[/I] radically different than the Story Now revolution looked compared to the games of its time. As in, I'm not sure it would be meaningfully comparable to D&D at all anymore, whereas there's some pretty obvious parallels between PbtA and D&D. I assume you already know of Microscope? That feels like it's at least reasonably close to what you're looking for in terms of "setting tourism" and all of the players "establishing" facts that then feed into future fact-establishing. It starts at a very high level and allows zooming in to almost any degree desired (which I believe is where the name comes from), so it can handle fact-establishment as big as literal continents and laws of physics and as small as specific descriptive elements of a single object of importance (e.g. an artifact.) But...well, in line with what I said earlier, I think there's a reason this hasn't (and perhaps won't) get the sea-change that Story Now got. Beyond the obvious problems of either time-travel issues (that is, being allowed to edit the past, with all the headaches that causes) or being "locked in" ([I]not[/I] being able to edit the past, so it becomes a read-only block), there's a pretty simple question of...what's the [I]point?[/I] With gamist stuff, the point is to play the game better, nice and straightforward. With "Story Before"/trad play, it's about reaching the climax of a well-crafted story--same point as watching a film or reading a book, hence the many comparisons to those mediums. With "Story Now" play, it's about being in the protagonist seat [I]when[/I] each climax occurs. In all three cases, there's some kind of purpose or destination or other thing to metaphorically aim at. It isn't just the act of doing the thing; it's also that doing the thing gets you to somewhere or something. What, beyond the [I]act[/I] of fact-establishing, does this "get" for the player(s)? An established setting? That seems like it just goes back to what you find so troublesome, that is, your feeling that (process) sim is in some sense seen as "lesser" than gaming-[I]qua[/I]-gaming and gaming-for-story, because a setting alone is kind of pointless unless you then [I]use[/I] it for something else. [/QUOTE]

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