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<blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9088891" data-attributes="member: 6690965">I think that's kind of the problem in and of itself though. You can make a quite reasonable case that simulation came first, as a default exercise. &quot;How can I use these games to go to these places instead?&quot; is a perfectly reasonable statement of the foundational difference between the D&amp;D experience and its wargame roots. Sim is so wrapped up in a bunch of the existing tools and roles we've established around TTRPGs, especially in the traditional role of the GM, that there hasn't been a need to organize and also such an established norm that it hasn't really undergone much critique.Fundamentally, the status quo was more hostile to the Nar-agenda and pretty ambiguous about Gam (plus that agenda is most easily ported to/satisfied by other mediums) before anyone was discussing any of this. It makes sense critique and a push for change was most likely to come from that corner, and maybe it shouldn't be surprising that Sim is still pretty reactionary, instead of sorting out its own principles.Plus, I think Sim is far and away the easiest agenda to satisfy through solo play. If we were looking for principles to start building game design on, I'd probably start there, looking at tools that people use for the specific purposes of worldbuilding, independent of the planned use of that work.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pedantic, post: 9088891, member: 6690965"] I think that's kind of the problem in and of itself though. You can make a quite reasonable case that simulation came first, as a default exercise. "How can I use these games to go to these places instead?" is a perfectly reasonable statement of the foundational difference between the D&D experience and its wargame roots. Sim is so wrapped up in a bunch of the existing tools and roles we've established around TTRPGs, especially in the traditional role of the GM, that there hasn't been a need to organize and also such an established norm that it hasn't really undergone much critique. Fundamentally, the status quo was more hostile to the Nar-agenda and pretty ambiguous about Gam (plus that agenda is most easily ported to/satisfied by other mediums) before anyone was discussing any of this. It makes sense critique and a push for change was most likely to come from that corner, and maybe it shouldn't be surprising that Sim is still pretty reactionary, instead of sorting out its own principles. Plus, I think Sim is far and away the easiest agenda to satisfy through solo play. If we were looking for principles to start building game design on, I'd probably start there, looking at tools that people use for the specific purposes of worldbuilding, independent of the planned use of that work. [/QUOTE]

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