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<blockquote data-quote="TYPO5478" data-source="post: 3149054" data-attributes="member: 37531">Opponents don't resist the spell with a saving throw; they resist being touched by a rolling ball of fire with a saving throw, the same way they could jump out of the way of a trap.&nbsp; Reflex negates damage from flaming sphere, it doesn't reduce it, nor does it prevent the effect from actually occurring.&nbsp; As I asked my DM, what attacks can be completely negated by a reflex save?Invisibility has very specific conditions about what types of spells remove its protection: &quot;any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe&quot;.&nbsp; Flaming sphere doesn't meet the criteria for negation set by invisibility.&nbsp; Flaming sphere has no area, it has no target, and its effect is a 5-ft.-diameter sphere.&nbsp; So unless you consider that 5-ft.-diameter sphere to be your opponent, your invisibility should remain intact.The sphere cannot target creatures (or anything else, for that matter).&nbsp; It simply moves where you direct it, whether there are creatures (either friends, foes or strangers) in the way or not.&nbsp; If there are creatures in the sphere's path (and they choose to stay there), they will get burned.&nbsp; Creatures not moving out of the way, or stepping in the way, no more constitutes an attack on your part than Randy Johnson's pitch constituted an attack on that bird.If directing a summoned creature doesn't negate invisibility, why should directing a summoned (or evoked) ball of flame?&nbsp; If triggering a trap that sends a mundane or magical burning sphere toward an enemy doesn't negate invisibility, why should sending your own flaming ball?&nbsp; If this were a mundane ignited orb that an invisible caster were manipulating with telekinesis, would the same arguments apply?Neither is the flaming sphere you, but the moves it makes are because it has to follow your commands.&nbsp; Is your concern really over the difference between mental and verbal control?&nbsp; Would it really be any different if the invisible caster were shouting or even whispering to the ball of fire, &quot;Go over there!&quot;So, if I used fabricate to create a masterwork longsword and then some idiot comes and lops his foot off with it, I just attacked him?&nbsp; With my fabricate spell???&nbsp; Cite your source.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TYPO5478, post: 3149054, member: 37531"] Opponents don't resist [B]the spell[/B] with a saving throw; they resist [B]being touched by a rolling ball of fire[/B] with a saving throw, the same way they could jump out of the way of a trap. Reflex [B]negates[/B] damage from [I]flaming sphere[/I], it doesn't reduce it, nor does it prevent the effect from actually occurring. As I asked my DM, what attacks can be [B]completely negated[/B] by a reflex save? [I]Invisibility[/I] has very specific conditions about what types of spells remove its protection: "any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe". [I]Flaming sphere[/I] doesn't meet the criteria for negation set by [I]invisibility[/I]. [I]Flaming sphere[/I] has no area, it has no target, and its effect is a 5-ft.-diameter sphere. So unless you consider that 5-ft.-diameter sphere to be your opponent, your invisibility should remain intact. The sphere cannot target creatures (or anything else, for that matter). It simply moves where you direct it, whether there are creatures (either friends, foes or strangers) in the way or not. If there are creatures in the sphere's path (and they choose to stay there), they will get burned. Creatures not moving out of the way, or stepping in the way, no more constitutes an attack on your part than Randy Johnson's pitch constituted an attack on that bird. If directing a summoned creature doesn't negate invisibility, why should directing a summoned (or evoked) ball of flame? If triggering a trap that sends a mundane or magical burning sphere toward an enemy doesn't negate invisibility, why should sending your own flaming ball? If this were a mundane ignited orb that an invisible caster were manipulating with [I]telekinesis[/I], would the same arguments apply? Neither is the flaming sphere you, but the moves it makes are because it has to follow your commands. Is your concern really over the difference between mental and verbal control? Would it really be any different if the invisible caster were shouting or even whispering to the ball of fire, "Go over there!" So, if I used [I]fabricate[/I] to create a masterwork longsword and then some idiot comes and lops his foot off with it, I just attacked him? With my [I]fabricate[/I] spell??? Cite your source. [/QUOTE]

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