Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="TYPO5478" data-source="post: 3149210" data-attributes="member: 37531">There is a difference between &quot;a spell&quot; and &quot;the effect of a spell.&quot;&nbsp; For the most part, the terms can be used interchangeably.&nbsp; However, there are a few cases where the distinction is important.&nbsp; I believe that flaming sphere is one of those cases, but to illustrate, let me refer to another spell first: wall of iron.&nbsp; Wall of iron allows a reflex save to negate damage from the spell's effect under certain circumstances (described in the spell's description), but not to negate the spell itself.&nbsp; A successful save doesn't prevent the spell's effect (the wall) from manifesting the way that, say, saving against charm person would.&nbsp; Likewise, flaming sphere also allows a reflex save to negate damage from the spell's effect under certain circumstances (described in the spell's description).&nbsp; A successful reflex save against a flaming sphere doesn't keep the sphere from being evoked (i.e. negating the spell itself); it simply negates damage from the spell's effect.If my mage were to conjure an iron wall and then allow the party's fighter to push it over onto our enemies, would that constitute an attack on my part since I'm the one who cast the spell that created the wall which is now requiring a save?Yes, but invisibility also has language that defines certain actions as not attacks, such as causing damage indirectly.&nbsp; Presumably this means that an invisible character may take actions which will, without a doubt, cause damage to a foe as long as the damage is not inflicted by the character himself.&nbsp; Directing the sphere is a move action, just like cutting a rope bridge or intentionally springing a trap, and the effect of that action may or may not indirectly cause damage to an opponent.&nbsp; Nonetheless, the damage is still indirect.&nbsp; How could a move action cause damage that was anything other than indirect?Flaming sphere already avoids these restrictions.It mustn't, because opponents are saving to avoid the spell's effect, not the spell itself.Not having books within reach, I can't look up the definition of &quot;subject;&quot; however, assuming it is synonymous with &quot;target,&quot; flaming sphere has no &quot;subject.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="TYPO5478, post: 3149210, member: 37531"] There is a difference between "a spell" and "the effect of a spell." For the most part, the terms can be used interchangeably. However, there are a few cases where the distinction is important. I believe that [I]flaming sphere[/I] is one of those cases, but to illustrate, let me refer to another spell first: [I]wall of iron[/I]. [I]Wall of iron[/I] allows a reflex save to negate damage from the [B]spell's effect[/B] under certain circumstances (described in the spell's description), but not to negate the spell itself. A successful save doesn't prevent the spell's effect (the wall) from manifesting the way that, say, saving against [I]charm person[/I] would. Likewise, [I]flaming sphere[/I] also allows a reflex save to negate damage from the [B]spell's effect[/B] under certain circumstances (described in the spell's description). A successful reflex save against a [I]flaming sphere[/I] doesn't keep the sphere from being evoked (i.e. negating [B]the spell[/B] itself); it simply negates damage from the [B]spell's effect[/B]. If my mage were to conjure an iron wall and then allow the party's fighter to push it over onto our enemies, would that constitute an attack on my part since I'm the one who cast the spell that created the wall which is now requiring a save? Yes, but [I]invisibility[/I] also has language that defines certain actions as [B]not[/B] attacks, such as causing damage indirectly. Presumably this means that an invisible character may take actions which will, without a doubt, cause damage to a foe as long as the damage is not inflicted by the character himself. Directing the sphere is a move action, just like cutting a rope bridge or intentionally springing a trap, and the effect of that action may or may not indirectly cause damage to an opponent. Nonetheless, the damage is still indirect. How could a move action cause damage that was anything other than indirect? [I]Flaming sphere[/I] already avoids these restrictions. It mustn't, because opponents are saving to avoid the [B]spell's effect[/B], not the [B]spell itself[/B]. Not having books within reach, I can't look up the definition of "subject;" however, assuming it is synonymous with "target," [I]flaming sphere[/I] has no "subject." [/QUOTE]

Verification