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ShortQuests -- individual adventure modules! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed to plug in to your game.

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1142705" data-attributes="member: 2011">Except that there is a threat."threatened area: An area within an opponent's reach."When you see an illusion, you believe it is real. If you are within the reach of an illusion of an opponent, then you believe that you are in a threatened area. As will the real opponent on the opposite side of you who believes that he has an ally who is giving him flank. As will every other character in the room.Just like if an illusion is of the floor over a pit, you believe that the floor is solid.Just because the floor is not really solid does not mean that you do not believe it is. Just because the illusion does not really threaten the area does not mean that you do not believe it does.I will emphasize a different part of the same quote:"Figment: .....(snip)...Because figments and glamers (see below) are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding or delaying foes, but useless for attacking them directly."The problem with illusions not resulting in a threat means that illusions of creatures are almost totally worthless. Everyone would immediately know that it is an illusion that just walked up and attempted to flank because the other opponent is not fighting against the target any better (i.e. from a metagaming point of view, he is not getting a bonus of +2 to hit and he cannot sneak attack).How is the spell useful for confounding a foe if the foe can immediately figure out that it is an illusion because the foe does not react to it properly?Lets take the following example.A B Xwhere X is a moving illusion of an opponent of B and B is an NPC.The player of A states: "I will flank B and attempt to sneak attack him."The GM states: "You cannot do that."A states: "Why not? Oh, X must not be real and since I know I am unable to use my sneak attack ability, my character knows it too (he knows that B is not giving him the proper opening). Since my character knows that, he can deduce that X is an illusion."It is not that in this example that the illusion X is attacking directly, it is not. It is not attacking at all. But, it is threatening.This is no different than the illusion of a wall. If X is an illusion of a wall, B would believe that it is a real wall and act accordingly (i.e. not try to back through it). If X is an illusion of an attacker, B will act accordingly (think he is threatened and might not attempt to do things like cast spells which would result in an AoO).The problem with not running illusions as if they are real within the rules is that you then fall into the trap of making assumptions about which rules apply to illusions and which do not, as opposed to stating "All rules apply to illusions as if they were real with the exception that they cannot directly cause a real effect, they can only indirectly do that."An illusion of a ceiling will still prevent people from seeing the sky above it, even in the daytime (no daytime light will shine through). An illusion of 5 lions roaring will still prevent most characters from hearing the two fighters talking in whispers on the other side of the room. Certain components (visual, audio, etc.) of illusions must be considered the same as real, otherwise illusions do not do anything.In the case of A B X, the reason A can flank B and get a +2 bonus is because B is not defending properly 100% against both A and X, not because of any mystic change in environment because X is either real or an illusion. That is nonsensical.A and B and X should all act and react identically, regardless of whether X is real or an illusion. Otherwise, they are acting and reacting differently which will indicate automatically to them that X is an illusion.The rules are there to adjudicate the situation from a common sense point of view, not to dictate illogical occurrences.</blockquote>

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