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<blockquote data-quote="ThatGuyThere" data-source="post: 5523321" data-attributes="member: 36764"><p>I've had this debate with my players. We resolved it, together, by deciding to leave it as it is in the book.</p><p></p><p>In D&D, there's a strong mechanical advantage to acting first - it's plausible (and with high-level rocket-tag, likely) that those who act first can act decisively, and prevent your reaction. Acting first is gold, and catching the other guy flat-footed is part of that.</p><p></p><p>...but acting <second> - if you're sure you can survive the first action - is actually the larger <tactical> advantage. This is most noticeable (or was for my group) in low-mid-level play, say, 6th to 8th. If there are two groups, both 40 ft away from each other, they get really hesitant to close or charge, because neither wants to expose themselves to counterattack; they have to "pay" (in actions) to move up, and their opponents don't. The "flat-footed until you act" is actually another small reward for 'having' to go first - while you pay in the action-economy to close the distance, and lose the tactical advantage of making your opponent commit first, you gain the (slight) advantage of your foes being flat-footed.</p><p></p><p>Regarding "what if we all know there's a fight coming", I don't buy it, for similar reasons as mentioned above. If everyone knows a fight's coming, nobody's <surprised> - but those who haven't acted are still flat-footed (which isn't the same thing - which might be part of your player's problem). A flat-footed character, effectively, has "lost" initiative; this is the penalty for losing that mini-game. Everyone knew the bunch was coming, but only the punch-er knew <exactly> when.</p><p></p><p>(And if the punch-ee wins initiative, well, the punch-er telegraphed his moves a little early, or something similar.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ThatGuyThere, post: 5523321, member: 36764"] I've had this debate with my players. We resolved it, together, by deciding to leave it as it is in the book. In D&D, there's a strong mechanical advantage to acting first - it's plausible (and with high-level rocket-tag, likely) that those who act first can act decisively, and prevent your reaction. Acting first is gold, and catching the other guy flat-footed is part of that. ...but acting <second> - if you're sure you can survive the first action - is actually the larger <tactical> advantage. This is most noticeable (or was for my group) in low-mid-level play, say, 6th to 8th. If there are two groups, both 40 ft away from each other, they get really hesitant to close or charge, because neither wants to expose themselves to counterattack; they have to "pay" (in actions) to move up, and their opponents don't. The "flat-footed until you act" is actually another small reward for 'having' to go first - while you pay in the action-economy to close the distance, and lose the tactical advantage of making your opponent commit first, you gain the (slight) advantage of your foes being flat-footed. Regarding "what if we all know there's a fight coming", I don't buy it, for similar reasons as mentioned above. If everyone knows a fight's coming, nobody's <surprised> - but those who haven't acted are still flat-footed (which isn't the same thing - which might be part of your player's problem). A flat-footed character, effectively, has "lost" initiative; this is the penalty for losing that mini-game. Everyone knew the bunch was coming, but only the punch-er knew <exactly> when. (And if the punch-ee wins initiative, well, the punch-er telegraphed his moves a little early, or something similar.) [/QUOTE]
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