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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5626124" data-attributes="member: 4937">That's internally nonsense.&nbsp; In the first part of the sentence you say, &quot;a character who has prepared himself with a potential thread he has perceived&quot;, which means that character has taken an action.&nbsp; When did he take that action?&nbsp; In the prior round!&nbsp; So, how you can you claim that some later round is the 'first round', if actions have already been taken in prior round?&nbsp; You are trying to say that the character exists in a state where he is both aware of the threat and has had time to act in response to it, and also he exists in a state where has not had time to act in response to it.&nbsp; That's a contridiction.The rules are very explicit.&nbsp; If you have had time to act, you are not flatfooted.&nbsp;You just showed yourself.&nbsp; The rules say that when a character has acted, then he is not flat-footed.&nbsp; And clearly the character in the example has acted after percieving a potential threat, and therefore clearly has had time to act, and therefore clearly his place in the initiative order has already come up so that he could act.&nbsp; If his turn in the initiative order has not already come up, then how could he have acted?What you are trying to say is that a character's actions don't count as actions unless you as the DM deem that some mystical point has passed which only you are in control of and you allow the player to roll for initiative.&nbsp;No, I'm not.&nbsp; I'm being a such a stickler for the rules here that it seems like house ruling to you, much as someone who was a real stickler for the 1e rules - things like simultaneous secret declarations of intent, to AC vs. weapon modifiers, weapon reach vs. initiative, and so forth - might have seemed as if they had wierd house rules to someone who played in a more casual manner.&nbsp; My guess is that at your table you call initiative at various points for various cinematic and personal reasons and reasons of convienence, and doing that would be a house rule.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5626124, member: 4937"] That's internally nonsense. In the first part of the sentence you say, "a character who has prepared himself with a potential thread he has perceived", which means that character has taken an action. When did he take that action? In the prior round! So, how you can you claim that some later round is the 'first round', if actions have already been taken in prior round? You are trying to say that the character exists in a state where he is both aware of the threat and has had time to act in response to it, and also he exists in a state where has not had time to act in response to it. That's a contridiction. The rules are very explicit. If you have had time to act, you are not flatfooted. You just showed yourself. The rules say that when a character has acted, then he is not flat-footed. And clearly the character in the example has acted after percieving a potential threat, and therefore clearly has had time to act, and therefore clearly his place in the initiative order has already come up so that he could act. If his turn in the initiative order has not already come up, then how could he have acted? What you are trying to say is that a character's actions don't count as actions unless you as the DM deem that some mystical point has passed which only you are in control of and you allow the player to roll for initiative. No, I'm not. I'm being a such a stickler for the rules here that it seems like house ruling to you, much as someone who was a real stickler for the 1e rules - things like simultaneous secret declarations of intent, to AC vs. weapon modifiers, weapon reach vs. initiative, and so forth - might have seemed as if they had wierd house rules to someone who played in a more casual manner. My guess is that at your table you call initiative at various points for various cinematic and personal reasons and reasons of convienence, and doing that would be a house rule. [/QUOTE]

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