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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5626141" data-attributes="member: 92305">I used that wording ("a character who has prepared himself with a potential thread he has perceived") because you had said it and to point out that actions before the combat starts do not count.  See...that's ridiculous to say because all characters are taking actions prior to the round. If we went by what you said, then no character, ever, would be flat-footed.   Player: I'm going to head over to the trader. I need to see if I can obtain a new shield.GM: Fine. You taking the shortcut through the ally again?Player: Yes. I know it's late and that shortcut takes me through the maul, but I'll be on the look out for suspicious thugs.GM: Well, it is, in deed, late. Dusk. And, about mid-way through the ally, a thug does step out into your way. He's brandishing a stiletto in his hand, blade bare. "Hold it there, laddy," he snears at you, "where ye be running off too this fine night?"Player: I'm not messing around. I pull my dagger and take a swipe at him.GM: OK, roll nish.Player: I got a 14.GM: The thug rolled 18. He attacks first, and you're flat-footed. As soon as he sees your arm dart to your weapon's handle, he flashes his stilletto right towards your face!Player: Wait a minute....I can't be flat-footed because I had an action right before the combat started.GM: You're always doing something right before the combat starts. That doesn't count. You're flat-footed until you act within the combat round.Player: Whatttt????   See....your argument about being flat-footed doesn't hold water when compared to the rule as written.  Again, if you House Ruled this, that's fine. It's your game. But don't delude yourself that you're playing this by the book. You're not.  On page 133 of the 3.5 PHB, under "How Combat Works", what does it say? The first bullet point says: Each combatant starts out flat-footed. That means, when you start combat, every character is considered flat-footed. That doesn't mean, as you say, that a character can do something prior to the combat in order to be considered not flat-footed. As it says on pg. 133, first Surprise is considered, then nish is rolled, then characters act in nish order. And, all characters remain flat-footed until they act. And, remember, that Surprise cannot happen if both sides of the combat are aware of each other--so Surprise prolly won't happen that often (mostly ambush situations).  Therefore (and accoriding to pg. 133), Combat starts on either the Surprise round or when initiative is thrown.  That's the "magical point", as you say, when combat begins, according to the rules.     I think you need to go back and read the rule! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /> You've got it wrong, and you're playing using a false assumption about the rule. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  Now, if you like the way you play the rule, that's great. More power to ya. Just know that you've House Ruled it. You're not playing RAW.</blockquote>

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