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<blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5628247" data-attributes="member: 6668292"><p>Let's go. (Of note: I'm not sure why you're text sizes are randomly in your post, or why they're messing with my text size outside of your quotes, but I really don't feel like messing with it at the moment [or probably later on]).</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>The game is dictating that the character takes the penalties, not you. They are using "you" in place of "your character".</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 10px">It's like they use different contexts in different areas of the book <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">I'm yet to see you demonstrate your point. The combat section gives penalties or actions that your character takes. Delay is within the combat section. When the SRD says about Delay, "you take no action" do you mean that you, out of character, take no actions? You cannot do anything as a player? No, it is specifically referencing the character. To that end, if it is referencing the character, there is no reason to believe that the character acts out of initiative differently than normal, unless you twist things to be in your view.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">It's implicit, huh? The writing is obviously saying "your character takes no actions" not the player. To that end, if the subject of the writing is the character, it seems to be <em>implicitly</em> saying that your character is delaying his actions. There was no shift of subject from character to player within the Delay section I quoted for you.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'">Why? Why does choosing to take no actions preclude not acting? Actions and acting are different things within the game.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">When you delay (a choice), the character's initiative is then altered. You have the order backwards.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'">Chance to act does not mean the same as taking an action.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'">Except it's implied that your character has chosen to delay, passing on his actions for now rather than act yet.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px">Again, the subject of the Delay quote was obviously the character (as the player can still act, it is obviously not aimed at the player). If the character can therefore choose to delay, he has had the ability to act. He can only decide to act on his initiative (barring explicit exceptions, such as speaking, of which Delay is not one), which brings him out of flat-footed.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p> <span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: '00CelestiaAntiqua'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p></p><p>You can houserule that, yes. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JamesonCourage, post: 5628247, member: 6668292"] Let's go. (Of note: I'm not sure why you're text sizes are randomly in your post, or why they're messing with my text size outside of your quotes, but I really don't feel like messing with it at the moment [or probably later on]). The game is dictating that the character takes the penalties, not you. They are using "you" in place of "your character". [FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=1][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=1][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=1][SIZE=1][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua][SIZE=2] It's like they use different contexts in different areas of the book ;) [/SIZE][/FONT] I'm yet to see you demonstrate your point. The combat section gives penalties or actions that your character takes. Delay is within the combat section. When the SRD says about Delay, "you take no action" do you mean that you, out of character, take no actions? You cannot do anything as a player? No, it is specifically referencing the character. To that end, if it is referencing the character, there is no reason to believe that the character acts out of initiative differently than normal, unless you twist things to be in your view. It's implicit, huh? The writing is obviously saying "your character takes no actions" not the player. To that end, if the subject of the writing is the character, it seems to be [I]implicitly[/I] saying that your character is delaying his actions. There was no shift of subject from character to player within the Delay section I quoted for you. [SIZE=2][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua] Why? Why does choosing to take no actions preclude not acting? Actions and acting are different things within the game. [/FONT][/SIZE] When you delay (a choice), the character's initiative is then altered. You have the order backwards. [SIZE=2][FONT=00CelestiaAntiqua] Chance to act does not mean the same as taking an action. Except it's implied that your character has chosen to delay, passing on his actions for now rather than act yet. [/FONT][/SIZE] Again, the subject of the Delay quote was obviously the character (as the player can still act, it is obviously not aimed at the player). If the character can therefore choose to delay, he has had the ability to act. He can only decide to act on his initiative (barring explicit exceptions, such as speaking, of which Delay is not one), which brings him out of flat-footed. [/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] You can houserule that, yes. As always, play what you like :) [/QUOTE]
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