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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sylrae" data-source="post: 4277982" data-attributes="member: 48520">Regardless of whether you agree or not, there is no reason for you to not be civil about it. It's a legitimate issue, and not because he's some sort of conniving manipulator. I believe he's arguing from a DM's standpoint. I know damn well that I dont like playing with rules that are this easily exploitable, especially not if there are a bunch of them. The only vague rule that I use is I never got rid of called shots. but, if a player does a called shot, they know its 100% up to dm discretion what the end effects and the circumstancial modifiers are.I would have put my issue about this in house rules though, not here, cause I would have been looking for a solution to the problem. The fact that there is in fact a problem is damn obvious. There are players who will try to use things like this (alot of them) just like in 3.5 people love the monk duelist combo. I mean, whats not to like when half of your stats add to AC (which is retardedly cheap). Or people who dip into ranger in 3.0 for the 1st level abilities. or the 3.0 shadowdancer, they get Hide in Plain sight and then leave it.People come up with weird metagaming things and exploit them if their dm lets them get away with it, or if the dm doesnt notice, or follows raw to the letter. I mean, theres even a pdf book online thats like 200 pages of how to exploit rules glitches in D&D 3.5 (I don't have it but one of my friends showed me it).This DOES illustrate issues in 4e that are less than ideal. I dont think it would have taken 7 pages except for people essentially saying that it doesnt matter and to ignore the rules and replace them with judgement calls that you have to make every time. The players will want to know where they stand, what counts as a threat and what doesnt. if they dont know where they stand, and the rules are so damn vague that you dont know where you stand, either people will try to exploit the rule and succeed, they will try and the dm will shut them down - pissing off the player, cause the rules say he can do it and the dm had nothing saying he couldnt in advance, or people will just avoid the class/abilities to avoid all the hassle and miscommunication that results from badly written mechanics.I wouldnt use this ability personally, but if i was in any situation where the DM changed the way the mechanics work without warning, then id be pissed. hell. It's happened, and I WAS pissed. And I left the DM's game because it kept happening. - which means he was a <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> DM (also because he killed off roughly 2 characters per session). There's nothing wrong or whiny about wanting clearly defined mechanics. I'd even go as far as to say that there IS something wrong with VAGUELY DEFINED MECHANICS.It doesn't matter if theyre house rules or published rules. If they are not well defined, and the player cant judge what the outcome of trying an action/strategy is in their mind because you have to make a bunch of judgement calls, people will get peeved over it eventually.</blockquote>

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