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FLAVOR CLASSES: They're Ba-ack!!!
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<blockquote data-quote="Graf" data-source="post: 839251" data-attributes="member: 3087"><p>Cool. I think working together is going to make a big difference.</p><p>Speaking of....</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I assume you mean criticisms? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Brilliant catch. I'd missed that. The SRD is kinda vague... </p><p>(and my DCs were apparently too generous, I've jacked them to brutal levels to match the DC 25 in the SRD)</p><p></p><p>How's this </p><p><strong>Apprehend the invisible thread (Ex)</strong></p><p>A court magus has been trained to be keenly attuned to the tell-tale signs of magical influence and receive a competence bonus of 2 to any sense motive checks related to detecting enchantment. They are so alert to the presence of enchantments that they have a chance to notice such effects even if they are not actively looking for them. They may automatically make a sense motive check if they interact with someone under the influence of enchantment magic (per the SRD, Skills II). The DM may roll this check in secret and only inform the player the check was made if they are successful.</p><p>Futhermore they have a chance of noticing if someone they are interacting with was under the effect of an enchantment spell in the past 24 hours even if they are no longer under the effects of the spell (whether the spells duration expired, the spell was dispeled or some other reason). The DC for this check is 25 + the enchanting spellcaster's charisma bonus (if any).</p><p>If a magus who is aware of magical influence (through a sucessful sense motive check or other means) may spend a minute in conversation with the affected person to determine the extent and sort of influence exercised, by making a Spellcraft check against a DC of 30. They may also attempt to determine the identity of the influencing individual by making a Sense motive check with a DC of 35.</p><p></p><p>Other stuff:</p><p>Giving access to simple weapons for all classes would really be a big power-up to arcane classes. If a wizard can't use a mace then I don't think a hedge wizard should be able to.</p><p>(In other words I'm for a class-by-class choice, with most classes giving very little).</p><p></p><p>I would like to include enworld in the credits as well. Morrus/enworld/the rules forums deserves the PR (even if he/it/it doesn't need it). But I know squat about legal releases, the difficulty involved in getting them, etc. Is it a tremendous pain-in-the-butt?</p><p>[If the Ct. Mag. & Hedge Wiz. are included then not including some sort of mention of SKR's fractional advancement stuff is not an option. I'll be happy to handle informing him. Since he OGL'd the idea specifically to give people more options when creating prestige classes I don't think he'll mind.]</p><p></p><p>I like the miner (though I might tinker a bit with it). I see a miner as being precisely the sort of class we should include. It a profession filled with people who are not inclinded, necessarily, toward adventuring but who will frequently wind up in dangerous situations similar to those experienced by adventurers. I mean... in any world where there is an Underdark it's just about the most dangerous occupation someone can have.</p><p>Furthermore a lot of people playing the "older races" (dwarves and elves) will want a character to have had a previous background. A dwarven miner who got seperated on a deep dig, or whose clan had to escape after their clanhold fell to goblins is a great character concept.</p><p></p><p>I do agree with Joe that permenently adding skills should be limited to 1 or 2. I would suggest giving the miner some sort of ability to ignore obect hardness or digging skill (similar to what the character Priggle the Deep Gnome scout from Piratecat's Storyhour has). maybe ignore one point of object hardness for every point of bab when using a pick or mining instrument, or something like that?</p><p>(i.e. a power that starts weak, scales up and makes them murder on stone walls or something else)</p><p></p><p>I -don't- think aiming for "balance with the expert" is a good idea. Depending on what character choices you have and the use of skills you get in the game the expert can be pretty powerful. I'm getting one low-magic game going and one of the fighters tried to get a level of expert, which would have given him the skills of a 12 level fighter (but with much better skill access of course).</p><p>There are lots of NPC oriented books availible, and DMs can give NPCs the stats and abilities they want and rarely fully stat out your average baker, miner, rat catcher anyway.</p><p></p><p>I may be misundertanding you but making a flavor class level "not count" against someone's level total is going to p.o. DMs. I wouldn't consider a class that "lets you do neat stuff but doesn't cost anything". Constructing a flavor class which takes away stuff (-1 bab, -(total hps/class level) hit points) might be an option but it would require the kind of design work I haven't got time for.</p><p>(I think it goes with out saying that a flavor class without any mechanical effects is just a character background.)</p><p></p><p>I think sticking to reasonable, not generally applicable bonuses, to non-combat activities and smaller bonuses to combat situations which occur infrequently (fighing in front of crowds, trying to knock down a wall) will yeild a more broadly useful set of classes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Graf, post: 839251, member: 3087"] Cool. I think working together is going to make a big difference. Speaking of.... I assume you mean criticisms? ;) Brilliant catch. I'd missed that. The SRD is kinda vague... (and my DCs were apparently too generous, I've jacked them to brutal levels to match the DC 25 in the SRD) How's this [b]Apprehend the invisible thread (Ex)[/b] A court magus has been trained to be keenly attuned to the tell-tale signs of magical influence and receive a competence bonus of 2 to any sense motive checks related to detecting enchantment. They are so alert to the presence of enchantments that they have a chance to notice such effects even if they are not actively looking for them. They may automatically make a sense motive check if they interact with someone under the influence of enchantment magic (per the SRD, Skills II). The DM may roll this check in secret and only inform the player the check was made if they are successful. Futhermore they have a chance of noticing if someone they are interacting with was under the effect of an enchantment spell in the past 24 hours even if they are no longer under the effects of the spell (whether the spells duration expired, the spell was dispeled or some other reason). The DC for this check is 25 + the enchanting spellcaster's charisma bonus (if any). If a magus who is aware of magical influence (through a sucessful sense motive check or other means) may spend a minute in conversation with the affected person to determine the extent and sort of influence exercised, by making a Spellcraft check against a DC of 30. They may also attempt to determine the identity of the influencing individual by making a Sense motive check with a DC of 35. Other stuff: Giving access to simple weapons for all classes would really be a big power-up to arcane classes. If a wizard can't use a mace then I don't think a hedge wizard should be able to. (In other words I'm for a class-by-class choice, with most classes giving very little). I would like to include enworld in the credits as well. Morrus/enworld/the rules forums deserves the PR (even if he/it/it doesn't need it). But I know squat about legal releases, the difficulty involved in getting them, etc. Is it a tremendous pain-in-the-butt? [If the Ct. Mag. & Hedge Wiz. are included then not including some sort of mention of SKR's fractional advancement stuff is not an option. I'll be happy to handle informing him. Since he OGL'd the idea specifically to give people more options when creating prestige classes I don't think he'll mind.] I like the miner (though I might tinker a bit with it). I see a miner as being precisely the sort of class we should include. It a profession filled with people who are not inclinded, necessarily, toward adventuring but who will frequently wind up in dangerous situations similar to those experienced by adventurers. I mean... in any world where there is an Underdark it's just about the most dangerous occupation someone can have. Furthermore a lot of people playing the "older races" (dwarves and elves) will want a character to have had a previous background. A dwarven miner who got seperated on a deep dig, or whose clan had to escape after their clanhold fell to goblins is a great character concept. I do agree with Joe that permenently adding skills should be limited to 1 or 2. I would suggest giving the miner some sort of ability to ignore obect hardness or digging skill (similar to what the character Priggle the Deep Gnome scout from Piratecat's Storyhour has). maybe ignore one point of object hardness for every point of bab when using a pick or mining instrument, or something like that? (i.e. a power that starts weak, scales up and makes them murder on stone walls or something else) I -don't- think aiming for "balance with the expert" is a good idea. Depending on what character choices you have and the use of skills you get in the game the expert can be pretty powerful. I'm getting one low-magic game going and one of the fighters tried to get a level of expert, which would have given him the skills of a 12 level fighter (but with much better skill access of course). There are lots of NPC oriented books availible, and DMs can give NPCs the stats and abilities they want and rarely fully stat out your average baker, miner, rat catcher anyway. I may be misundertanding you but making a flavor class level "not count" against someone's level total is going to p.o. DMs. I wouldn't consider a class that "lets you do neat stuff but doesn't cost anything". Constructing a flavor class which takes away stuff (-1 bab, -(total hps/class level) hit points) might be an option but it would require the kind of design work I haven't got time for. (I think it goes with out saying that a flavor class without any mechanical effects is just a character background.) I think sticking to reasonable, not generally applicable bonuses, to non-combat activities and smaller bonuses to combat situations which occur infrequently (fighing in front of crowds, trying to knock down a wall) will yeild a more broadly useful set of classes. [/QUOTE]
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